Wiki?

[Head Monkey]

I like this forum a lot. Builders clearly need a place to work out new ideas, ask questions, have build logs, and get advice. Assuming the site issues get worked out then this will hopefully continue to be the single best place for that on the web.

But I think we’d benefit from something in addition to the forum. In short, a wiki seems like a great idea for a bunch of the info that is scattered about the posts in this site (and a few other places.) I’m curious how many people here would be interested in helping build up an authoritative, curated wiki on ski and snowboard construction. Obviously it will take some writing, and time, but it seems like the kind of thing that would be worth it in the long run. I’d be willing to help seed it with much of the content from my own site, and anything helpful from my previous posts here or at Graf’s site.

It would appear that I have unlimited disk space and bandwidth with Dreamhost… not sure if that’s normal, or an artifact of having an account with them for forever. I just installed the latest version of MediaWiki, which is the software behind Wikipedia. I’ve never actually made a wiki before, so I figured I’d screw around with it and see how it works. Seems pretty straightforward, actually.

If there is enough interest, then I would be willing to host this wiki for free until, well, until I die. My wife is “a woman of leisure” and a competent writer/software developer. I’m sure I can rope her into helping us get started and maintain the site. (I’ve actually made this exact same offer for the forum a few times too… in posts and in email… that offer still stands.)

So, anyone interested? If so, I’d like to take suggestions for a name for the wiki… I’ll get a separate domain name besides happymonkeysnowboards.com for it. I can put a basic structure for the content in place, then open it up for good-old community edits and contributions, just like Wikipedia. I’m guessing this could happen in a few hours, modulo domain registration and DNS propagation time.

Thanks,

Mike

[Richuk]

I'd like to be able to put this is softer terms - Mike is a good guy, but the statement is 'let chose a name and get this done'.

So, if the proposal is being stated so clearly, I can only respond in the same way and state the reality of the matter:

Mike was one of the early members, using Skibuilders, adding content and comment - just like we have all done. HappyMonkeySnowBoards is a journal - it has been stationary for about a year. Graf is a forum, but is stationary too.

Skibuilders continues to grow and give more and more information - thus the quality of the results continue to be lifted, however, the suggestion from Mike is organise a splinter because it is largely being tripped up by a technical issue?

Arguably there is room for SkiBuildersPro.com, but I don't think this is what is being proposed ... if the votes come to you, you want get this new site up and running. Apart from my obvious objection, my question, is where would that leave Skibuilders?

Fundamentally we all benefit from acting as a group - but it is funny how memories of where we started and who helps us gets shorter as we make better boards and skis.

Clearly, Kam et al have stated they want to take the site forward and is canvassing opinions - it might be worth allowing a process to take place, and or participate before attempting to cut the legs out from under the forum?

[MontuckyMadman]

I think a true wiki would need detailed content regarding cassettes and crazy industrial presses like we see in the dynastar and nordica factories. Very different than anything here.

That being said, a wiki would create more articles and details and reference for everyone involved in this hobby/profession.
It might help to clear up some discrepancies and help people figure out where they went wrong before they go there. Maybe even eliminate the redundant questions we see here. Details on press construction and the dangers involved to force people to build safe devices and understand the magnitude of what they are doing.

i think its a great idea. I read every post on here literally, I could contribute time to this.

[OAC]

A wiki is a great idea. And I like to contribute (if I can). But it should be part of "skibuilders.com". In my opinion. It's good to have all the info in one place.

[Head Monkey]

Richuk, I think you misunderstand my proposal. My suggestion is not to replace the Skibuilders forum with a wiki: it is to add one more tool for our community to use and grow with. The wiki I propose is not the solution to the technical problems this forum is having. The only solution to that is fixing those technical problems in a way that ensures we have a forum forever, and if there is anything I can do to help with that I absolutely will. I have in fact offered money and man-power to that end many times!

The forum must continue to thrive and be useful. We need a place to wonder why plywood is or is not a viable material for a core, to share results of poly glue as a primary glue to the laminate, to critique press design, share our personal progress, etc. A forum, this forum, is the only thing that can accomplish that.

The proposed wiki is a way for us to capture and organize the many things this group has learned into a more cohesive resource. It is where every 10-page thread that should be turned into a decent article on the particular subject can become that article.

Ideally this forum and the wiki refer heavily to each other. I can’t imagine, in fact, how someone would be able to meaningfully contribute to such a wiki without also having to contribute here!

I hope that helps clarify. The suggestion and offer are still on the table.

Thanks,

Mike

[Head Monkey]

OAC’s suggestion that the wiki be part of Skibuilders is a good one. If Kam and the guys want to make that possible, then I’m all for it, and I’ll help build the wiki’s content. If they don’t want to, then I’m also willing to host one for us on a different domain (again, assuming there is demand and agreement).

[Richuk]

Nope, no mis-understanding - the wiki wasn't initially thought to be part of SkiBuilders.

[chrismp]

there are quite a few communities that have a wiki alongside a forum and they seem to work well. the forum is the place to discuss new ideas that might end up in the wiki when they're tried and tested.

[skidesmond]

I think a Wiki would be a good idea. I'd like to see it as part of SKIBUILDERS.COM. I think I've read nearly every post here. The forum is crucial to anyone who is building skis/boards or doing their own R+D. I've read all of HeadMonkeys site many times and it also has plenty of great ideas, tips and "how-to". I think most of us have built there hoses based on HeadMonkeys instructions. Is it time consuming to read thousands of posts? Yup, but there is no short cut. I wouldn't want a Wiki to be looked upon as a short cut.

[Brazen]

Talk easy. Write hard.

[Head Monkey]

Interesting comments. My reaction from the responses so far is to take a “wait and see” approach. We’ll wait and see if a wiki becomes part of skibuilders.com with their changes to fix the forums. If not, then I’ll poke on the topic again.

I’m a bit surprised by the few responses that have a negative reaction to a wiki on principle. I may be in the minority, but I think it’s actually bad that for someone to find something here they have to attempt to search 25,386 posts (count as of this writing)…

[MontuckyMadman]

doesnt matter what you do. never good to have all your huevos in one basket.

[falls]

I know what huevos are, but can someone please explain what a wiki is in the skibuilders context. A set of definitive articles on each process?

[vinman]

As a relatively new builder I agree that searching this site is daunting. Even when you know what you are looking for. Many of the best solutions to thing are buried in threads without relevant names like in someone's personl build journal.

I think a wiki page is a good idea. However if one gets put up it needs to break building into it's components and then also have subsections for the various ways to accomplish that specific part of the process. For a recent example, bending edged and the various types of benders out there.

I also agree it needs to stay part of skibuilders.com if possible. None of would have likely built anything if it weren't for this site.

[Head Monkey]

I know what huevos are, but can someone please explain what a wiki is in the skibuilders context. A set of definitive articles on each process?

I’d imagine a wiki for ski and snowboard building breaking down like this:

1. A set of articles that outline the high-level process with links to…
2. A larger set of more detailed articles that explain the current known set of best practices and techniques the community has developed to-date.
3. A rich set of categories so you get good cross-linking between articles not related via a simple hierarchy.

Take a look at the categories I have here: http://www.happymonkeysnowboards.com/MonkeyBlog/ Specifically, the Snowboard Construction and Monkey Shop categories you’ll see down the left side of the page. Imagine these as some of the top-level articles in a wiki. Whereas the blog posts on my site capture only my techniques, and are only authored by me, articles in our wiki would capture the best practices that everyone here as come up with, and are edited and updated over time by any of us as we learn more.

That last part is the key value: instead of static information that never changes, like blogs and forum posts, the wiki articles are alive. We change them over time to reflect what we learn via the forum.

You could actually imagine all of this in an official Wikipedia WikiProject, but Wikipedia expressly avoids any material of a “how-to” nature. A wiki for our stuff would be largely how-to