Flame treatment

[falls]

Do you think that attempts at flame treatment can actually make bonding worse?
ie. if you have always just relied on the factory flame treatment and had no bonding issues would starting to pass a propane torch flame over the tip spacer, base and topsheet bonding surfaces prior to layup actually make things worse in any cases? (obviously avoiding burning/melting the ptex).

[twizzstyle]

If the material is brand new (i.e. relatively fresh treatment), then maybe? If it has been sitting around a long time (like all of my materials...), it's probably worth doing?

[vinman]

I always reflame my plastics. Mechanical abrasions, dirt, skin oils etc are inevitable going to happens. I wipe with a clean damp rag (water only) let air dry and reflame within 30 min of layup. Remember the oxidation layer is only a couple molecules thick.

19 pair to date , 18 with uhmw sidewall, and no delams.

[Richuk]

Maybe it's worth testing the issue.

I'm not sure whether it is a good idea to flame treat base material with edges attached.

[vinman]

Rich, what is your reservation with flaming base + edges?

Are you concerned that the edges might pop off? The base does do some expansion and contraction but I've not had any issues with edges popping off or bases permenantly warping.

I think most of the base warp issue happens when there is big temp fluctuation immediately after or during cutting the base.

[Richuk]

Great - good to know. You must be being careful with how you judge what surface area the flame is treating or have you shifted to using a ribbon burner/spreader?

Falls - articles on the web suggests that flame treatment of PE should be viewed as something that last for a period of weeks. The time period varies according to the type of plastic being used, so you may need to take a different view with the topsheet. It is worth doing a few test to judge whether you can see a detectable difference with the water droplet test or more generally on how it wets out.

[vinman]

Rich, I pretty much just treat the whole surface. You can sort of see the area that the flame is heating. There is a brief "haze" that developers when you pass the flame over the material. It is really just a change in the sheen of the material. I think of this as the area that got treated. I try to overlap just a little and cover the whole area. I usually make passes longitudinally over the ski and across it. I work quickly covering 1ft per second or so. I do make sue things cool off and return to shape before making anymore passes over the same area.

Over the sidewalls I make a couple passes. I also do pre and post water drop tests in a couple areas to see change.

[falls]

http://www.idspackaging.com/Common/Pape ... erview.htm
Not sure if this has been linked. Some info on flame and corona treatments.

[vinman]

http://www.researchgate.net/publication ... e7e2cc.pdf

Another good reference.

[Richuk]

Nice. When I get a chance, I'll find a few old threads and pull them forward. Vin, perhaps you have a minute to record your method next time you do it.

[vinman]

OK next time I flame sidewalls or bases I'll try to remember to video it.

[gav wa]

I made a simple slide through flame treatment set up. Had to make two small burner bars. I figured having the finished base slide onto only 3 bits of tube the damage from sliding onto these should be minimal. So far the test pieces have been promising. I can adjust the flames up and down so when I get the best results it is easy to set it and get similar results every time. ( I hope )
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[MontuckyMadman]

Wow

[skidesmond]

Great idea! A new use for my grill