CNC - Temperature Distortion

For discussions related to designing and making ski/snowboard-building equipment, such as presses, core profilers, edge benders, etc.

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chrismp
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Post by chrismp »

If I write long posts I always copy the whole post before clicking send.
Richuk
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Post by Richuk »

Click the go back arrow and its there.
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MontuckyMadman
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Post by MontuckyMadman »

chrismp wrote:If I write long posts I always copy the whole post before clicking send.
Ditto. Live and learn the sb forum ways padawan...
sammer wrote: I'm still a tang on top guy.
Richuk
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Post by Richuk »

I'm at that stage where I need to think seriously about Motion Control Cards. Does anyone have a view? Good/bad experiences?

I done the usual reading around - this was quite useful:

http://www.automation.com/pmd/MotionCon ... Design.pdf

Depending of costs, I would tend towards Ethernet.
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richie
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Post by richie »

Richuk wrote:I'm at that stage where I need to think seriously about Motion Control Cards. Does anyone have a view? Good/bad experiences?

I done the usual reading around - this was quite useful:

http://www.automation.com/pmd/MotionCon ... Design.pdf

Depending of costs, I would tend towards Ethernet.
Hi Rich,

I'm using a Warp9 SmoothStepper for a few reasons - it was included in the second hand gear I scored but it was always on my radar seemingly a common choice I thought I would go with the masses. Mine is a USB one but given the choice I'd go ethernet too since the ethernet version already has MACH4 beta support, so its higher on the development path pecking order obviously!

The SmoothStepper seems to run very well, I have left it running code for 24 hours of hundreds of loops of MonkeyCAM programs and it runs to the end. The only occasional annoying thing is that it can run out of buffer if Windows is interrupted by clicking in other windows trying to do stuff which is dumb anyway because the PC should be left alone really while running gcode I think. There are buffer types of settings and I have not yet played with these so I might be able to minimise or completely stop them happening too.

The Smooth Stepper was simple to configure and sits alongside my Homann Designs BOB which was an easy hook up to my servo drives, and it just works......

I take it you're ahead of me and have your mechanical's all built? I'm the other way around and my electronics and CAM and MACH3 are all done and I'm about to leap into table and gantry build.....

Have fun, download MonkeyCAM and get some quick GCODE spit out, its awesome time saver for me.

cheers
Rich
MonkeyCAM and SnoCAD - https://github.com/mikemag
Ski binding mounting https://github.com/splitn2/DrillSki

Richard Harcourt | www.splitn2.com | Christchurch New Zealand
rich@splitn2.com | www.facebook.com/splitn2
twizzstyle
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Post by twizzstyle »

I'm using a GeckoDrive G540. I don't know what its limitations are, but it works for my machine. There was literally nothing for me to learn or figure out, I just plugged my motors in (they had DB9 connectors already), plugged it into the computer, and I was up and running. It does use a parallel port.

http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-st ... /g540.html
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richie
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Post by richie »

twizzstyle wrote:I'm using a GeckoDrive G540. I don't know what its limitations are, but it works for my machine. There was literally nothing for me to learn or figure out, I just plugged my motors in (they had DB9 connectors already), plugged it into the computer, and I was up and running. It does use a parallel port.

http://www.geckodrive.com/geckodrive-st ... /g540.html
I know a guy who has been using G540 for a few years on his home built cnc mill and lathe and he's done amazing stuff with it. I was tempted to go with a powerful stepper solution but I am blindly and naively hung up about wanting a closed loop system although I know I'll get a lot of experienced people telling me for my purposes its not really necessary. Plug n play is a good thing as there is so much to learn anyway!!! Still nothing like a challenge what isn't in this business!!!!!!!!!
MonkeyCAM and SnoCAD - https://github.com/mikemag
Ski binding mounting https://github.com/splitn2/DrillSki

Richard Harcourt | www.splitn2.com | Christchurch New Zealand
rich@splitn2.com | www.facebook.com/splitn2
Richuk
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Post by Richuk »

Thanks Twizz/Richie.

GeckoDrive 540 is a great product and a really great site for background reading. Unfortunately, I will be running four motors, so I've had to scrub them from my list. They have a great reputation, clearly well deserved.

SS - E, has a great reputation too. I've read a few comments about noise and lost connections when connected via USB. Ethernet has a larger bandwidth - apparently that is a good thing and it super stable.

But what's so wrong with a parallel port? I'm assuming its a slower pipe. I'll need to research that.

Finding a matching BOB ... well there's a thing.

My machine is built - except for the leadscrew. I need to find someone with a lathe. Building the PSU this week - it will take a while. The machine is a very basic design ... lots of fingers crossed on this one. If it works well, I might re-drill some of the holes in the right place.

Closed-loop - wow. That's PRO! Leadshine? How far have you gotten Richie?
Last edited by Richuk on Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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richie
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Post by richie »

Richuk wrote:Thanks Twizz/Richie.

GeckoDrive 540 is a great product and a really great site for background reading. Unfortunately, I will be running four motors, so I've had to scrub them from my list. They have a great reputation, clearly well deserved.

SS - E, has a great reputation too. I've read a few comments about noise and lost connections. Ethernet has a larger bandwidth - apparently that is a good thing!

Finding a matching BOB ... well there's a thing.

My machine is built - except for the leadscrew. I need to find someone with a lathe. Building the PSU this week - it will take a while. The machine is a very basic design ... lots of fingers crossed on this one. If it works well, I might re-drill some of the holes in the right place.

Closed-loop - wow. That's PRO! Leadshine? How far have you gotten Richie?
Yeah Leadshine do a hybrid closed loop stepper. What put me off steppers is that when microstepping to get the resolution you loose a lot of torque, although some newer stepper designs apparantly do it better with 3 phase steppers etc.....

Basic is good, keep it simple !

There must be a raft of suitable BOB, my Homann Designs MB02 BOB is working very well check this out http://www.homanndesigns.com/store/inde ... ucts_id=59 I have the slightly older MB02-V5 board but its essentially the same. However lots of others on the market just as good or better must be there.

Sounds like you're close to operational testing, well done, I've accumulated most of my mechanical components now the accurate steel work is psyc'ing me out a bit, gotta get on with it!

Post progress pics/vid when you can please all helps with the motivation.....

cheers
Rich
MonkeyCAM and SnoCAD - https://github.com/mikemag
Ski binding mounting https://github.com/splitn2/DrillSki

Richard Harcourt | www.splitn2.com | Christchurch New Zealand
rich@splitn2.com | www.facebook.com/splitn2
Richuk
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Post by Richuk »

I'll e-mail you a link to a forum - they will help you with anything you are unsure about. You might pick up a few bruises, but they will push you forward. They will be very interested in your closed loop system, you will be showed with praise for that decision )

Have you bought them?
twizzstyle
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Post by twizzstyle »

Rich, the G540 has four outputs :)

What are you doing for a 4th axis? Any pictures of your build so far?

A closed-loop system would be super sweet. I've never had problems with skipped steps on my big router, but I have had it happen on my small mill when taking too-deep of cuts in steel. That's something I can alleviate with smarter tool paths though (and again, since wood and plastic is the only thing I cut on my big machine it's never an issue).

The only downside I can think of with parallel ports is that it's kind of an old technology. There was some reason my G540 wouldn't work with an add-on parallel port card I bought for my main shop computer, I had to buy an old computer with an integrated parallel port on the motherboard. Luckily, old computers are cheap (I think I paid $50 for a computer, with LCD monitor, so I just made that the dedicated computer for the CNC router)
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Post by knightsofnii »

I also have a G540, with 4 outputs, using X and A to drive my X axis motors. I suppose you could dedicate the A for something else and figure out how to run 2 motors off the x? I duno.
It's been working well. It's literally taped to my cart with power supply and the PC terminal
Doug
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Post by Richuk »

Thanks Twizz,

I had understood I'd be restricted to approx 42-45Vdc to leave a safety margin for back EMF and when running 4.2amp motors the idle current function feature would drop out, meaning the motors would get hot when at stand still.

I was intending to over spec the motors and push the electronics a little, so that should I need to build v.2 - cutting plate aluminium, I could continue with the same electronics and motors.

Maybe I should drop Gecko an e-mail, as you are both getting what you want from it and I have an computer with a LPT port.

My machine is a belt driven, per Mike Everman (http://bell-everman.com/) I borrowed from the thread he started within CNCzone. I dropped the gear ratio to 2.8, but this still preserves a high holding torque. It theoretically increases resolution - but I've slight increased the potential for backlash and I'm sure some resolution will be lost due to the quality of the build. I'll take a few photo's Twizz - although the ends the gantry will be re-designed - they're a compromise.

Nii is right, I'm running the x-axis with two motors. I think you can run two ballscrews via one motor?

Thanks for the help!
twizzstyle
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Post by twizzstyle »

Yeah, take all of my input with a grain of salt - I did virtually no research when I built everything, it just all works so I'm good with it. My motors get very hot, but I've been told that's normal for these steppers.

My x-axis is driven by rack and pinion, on either side of the frame, but there is a single motor on the gantry driving the gears on either side. This has never been an issue for me, but over time the gears have worn slightly and I've built up some backlash. I'm actually replacing the gears this weekend, and tightening up the belts a bit to get the backlash back to how it was when it was new.

If I did it again I'd go ballscrew (which is how my Y and Z axes are driven). I've considering modifying it to replace the gear racks with ballscrews.
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4th axis , or just 4th motor as a 2nd x-axis motor

Post by richie »

You can slave an axis with Mach3 so A follows X for example. You just have to hope they stay in check. Running 2 motors on one axis with servos I am too chicken to do as I doubt they would follow so well, I had considered it but then opted for one large screw and a stiff gantry design so I get negligible twisting and racking, alternatively I had considered to run 2 ballscrews off one motor via a 25 or 30mm T10 belt or similar, that would keep both screws pretty much in sync for woodworking sake - thats my backup plan. Ball screws I think will need some looking after I am going to set up a semi auto lube system for them with a grease pump and run the grease through a flexi PE pipe network with the wiring in the cable tray / cable snake. Wood chips I don't think affect ballscrews but metal chips might so thats another thing to think about how to keep all the linear ways and ballscrews out of the way of nastier types of swarf. I'm bound to learn all this the hard way of course my design is by evolution not by good design!
MonkeyCAM and SnoCAD - https://github.com/mikemag
Ski binding mounting https://github.com/splitn2/DrillSki

Richard Harcourt | www.splitn2.com | Christchurch New Zealand
rich@splitn2.com | www.facebook.com/splitn2
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