new idea for protecting wood sidewalls - thoughts?

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new idea for protecting wood sidewalls - thoughts?

Post by Boulderski » Thu Feb 18, 2016 1:46 pm

I posted last month for some ideas on protecting wood skis and got some really good input and tried out a few methods to protect wood - poly coat, clear plastic sheet over wood, epoxy coat, 2k spray coat. Some of these methods did protect the skis a bit more but nothing holds up to a metal edge smacking against the side of ski. The epoxy and poly scuff fast and the clear plastic sheet just gets beat the hell up (I even looked at some ski logics and after a season or two they look like hell).

I think these options are great for snowboards but ski edges smacking against each other is to much.
SO - I don't want to give up on engraved wood skis with wood sidewalls. I like how they ride and look - but seems like I need some plastic to hold up to metal edges.

Here is my new idea I am toying with: PU Bumper after pressing
-After pressing ski and giving a quick router pass on sidewall - run one more router pass and place a small trough on the corner of top sheet. Here is a pic of what I mean
-Then tape top sheet flip ski on side and fill with a PU (or something else)
-Let dry and pull tape
-then run one more router pass to clean it up and finish it out

The example above I used some crappy urethane from ski tune shop - I just wanted to do a quick test - but I think this has some potential... especially because most of the chipping I see on wood sidewalls is right on the edge where topsheet meets up.

So what are your thoughts?
- Do you see any major flaws in this idea?

-What should I use to fill my little trough? I have spent time reading through threads on Polyurethane sidewalls and it sounds like smooth on 305 is an option many people are using. - But - I could go with something even a bit harder as this section is really just there to protect from edges smacking and chipping top section of sidewall

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Post by sammer » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:20 pm

I've posted this before but will humor you and post it again 'cause it's been a while.

The best thing I've ever found beside leaving your wood sidewalls untreated, is boiled linseed oil.

Wipe it on, let it dry, wipe it off, and you're done for a year or more.
I've got skis with over 120 days/6yrs still on their first wipe. (everydayfatties, skied on them a couple times last week, they need a tune, edges are dull as...)
It soaks into the wood and looks great!

I've got untreated maple sidewalls that still look great, no evidence of rot after 5yrs. (these skis do come inside to dry everyday)
Don't know how they would do if left in the back of a pickup for the winter, but if they get the chance to dry I have no issues.
These are hard maple though, My bamboo sidewalls show some problems if left untreated,(staining, mold, water intrusion)
but boiled linseed oil is the ticket there too.

As far as chipping at the topsheet/sidewall, you need a proper bevel.
This will alleviate most of your topsheet chipping.
I bevel sidewalls between 14 and 20deg, then bevel the topsheet (where it joins the sidewall to close to 45, or roundover.

Or quit skiing old school "glue boots" and widen your stance. :D

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Post by skidesmond » Fri Feb 19, 2016 3:52 am

Chipping is part of skiing whether it's your own built skis or commercial. Like Sammer says, widen your stance :-D

My skis get chipped more from transporting to/from the mountain than skiing, its just part of life.

Take a look at Sterling skis, Beautiful skis but requires a cnc (or surgeon like hands) to cut the top sheet and metal to match. Perhaps you could do a more ghetto version, Take a very small slot cutting or rabbet router bit and remove part of the top sheet and laminates perhaps the thickness of base material (1.4mm or so.). Then epoxy a strip of black base material or you color of choice into the slot. Clamp it some how, maybe with spring clamps, then trim the excess base material after it's cured.

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Post by Boulderski » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:16 am

ok - so I don't ride narrow stance - ha! I have had a lot of people out riding my skis (park, powder - all over mtn) and they get chipped... If your dropping cliffs or hitting jumps your skis are going to smack into each other.

I have adjusted my edge bevel and it has improved some... I have tried 18 to 22degree side bevel and I have rounded out top section on one model - end of day this just doesn't offer that much protection.
I have thought about doing metal or plastic along the edges (similar to sterling skis) but I think that it would be easier to do the method above with routering a small trough and filling with PU.
Getting the metal or plastic lined up perfectly sounds pretty miserable - but I do have access to cnc and could pull if off if I don't come up with a better option.

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Post by heke » Sat Feb 20, 2016 7:33 am ... inish.aspx

Have you try this? It works well in bamboo rods.

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Post by MadRussian » Sat Feb 20, 2016 6:00 pm

So what are your thoughts?
I think you are going to right direction. It's only so much can be done.

I done similar what you are trying to do only as a spots repair in areas of most abuse. In my case sidewall got chiseled out from under top layers.
You can mix sawdust with your choice of a epoxy to achieve viscosity you want.
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Post by falls » Sat Feb 27, 2016 8:13 pm

I think it would be way easier to create a polyurethane sidewall on the core before you layup (trough method in the polyurethane sidewall thread). That way you have the sidewall bonded with epoxy to the other layers. If you rout it out later and pour in polyurethane it is only the strength of the poly bond holding things together.
If you wanted to still have some wood look lower down you can just rout the trough using a profiled template (see gozaimas post in the polyu sidewall thread) creating a trough that varies in depth along the core.
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Post by motoman » Thu Jul 07, 2016 6:05 am

One my friend gave me broken snowboard for giant style.
The company that manufactures such snowboards is called OneEdge Style.
I did some analysis of snowboard insides and was puzzled which material this company use for sidewalls.
I was surprised that they were made of wood. I found out that it is wood by burning a chip of broken sidewall.
It looks like impregnated MDF since it is brittle under the load and it has laminated structure.
Here is the picture

Has anybody seen something similar?

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Post by chrismp » Thu Jul 07, 2016 7:59 am

Might be phenolic sidewalls. Isosport produces that stuff.

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Post by skidesmond » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:07 am

It's phenolic composite. Surprised to see it break like that. I've worked with sample pieces of phenolic composite resin from Fiberesin. It seemed pretty indestructible, at least the samples I worked with.

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Post by motoman » Thu Jul 07, 2016 8:40 am

Actually snowboard was broken on two halves and I used pliers to get piece of the sidewall. The result you see on the picture.
Thanks guys, you eased my search for truth.
Have anybody worked with phenolic resins before?

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Post by skidesmond » Thu Jul 07, 2016 4:51 pm

Never made a board or skis. I've used only in small samples. It glues well to wood and routes very well. I wondered if it would crack in extreme cold.
Very hard material. I looked at buying 4x8 sheets of it. Its expensive. Its extremely heavy. Plus a lot of waste, figure 2x4 of the sheet is wasted. If a 4 foot strip is long enough for snow boards, then it would be efficient.

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Post by motoman » Thu Jul 07, 2016 9:52 pm

That might be the reason why slalom and giant snowboards have such sidewalls.
But may be it is possible to make sidewalls made of phenolic resin pouring it into a mold like epoxy resin. I don't know, only guess.

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Post by barnboy » Sat Jul 09, 2016 2:15 pm

I've used phenolic for sidewalls before, they are bomb-proof for sure, but you're going to burn up ALL of your cutting tools finishing them post-press.

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Post by motoman » Thu Jul 21, 2016 12:54 pm

Isosport says that they use paper and phenol resin. I guess they press paper impregnated with resin.
Definitely it is horror for cutting tools) beside diamond cutting))

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