Section8-titanal

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skidesmond
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Section8-titanal

Post by skidesmond » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:02 am

Looking for feedback for those who have used titanal.

I made a sample layup about 6in x 8in using 2layers of titanal .6mm thick, bought it from Skilab. Bottom layer used VDS, the top layer didn’t. I wanted to see if VDS helped or not with bonding. Here are the details of the layup:

Ptex base
Flax
VDS, titanal, VDS
Poplar veneer 1.5mm thick
Titanal
Flax

I used Entropy resin. Pressed at 45psi for 8hrs.

I haven’t trimmed the flashing off yet. The bonding of titanal looks fine so far on both sides. The problem is I can not bend the sample layup. I mean it’s rock solid. I know many race skis and others use 2 layers of titanal, yet they flex. Is it because the sample is small and just can’t apply enough pressure?

I’m think of using only 1 layer of titanal but should it be on the top or bottom? Many manufactures use titanal/AL for binding retention, so I’m thinking a full layer on top.

Thanks.

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MontuckyMadman
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Post by MontuckyMadman » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:14 pm

.6 sounds crazy thick. If u wanna do 2 layers i have calced .3.
What are ypu trying to acheive?
Stiffness longitudenally?
Tortional stiffness?
Dampness from metal weight?
What flax weight are u useing?
Ive done 6x6inch layups with triax glass and 1/4" ply cant bend them.

Some race skis just have one layer of light weight biax and then the titanal.
sammer wrote: I'm still a tang on top guy.

skidesmond
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Post by skidesmond » Wed Oct 18, 2017 3:49 pm

Going for a race inspired ski. .6mm is typical for a race ski. My atomics have a double layer. The flax is 350gsm (10.3oz) biax. Going for dampness. I have no problem going with 1 layer, just not sure if it should go on the bottom or top. Leaning toward top to aid in binding retention.

After my sample cures for a few days I’ll try to peel it apart to see how well it holds.

Ideally I’d like to use titanal that’s 2.5 - 3 in wide in stead of 5.5in wide. But this is all I’ve found so far.

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MontuckyMadman
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Post by MontuckyMadman » Wed Oct 18, 2017 4:28 pm

skidesmond wrote:
Ideally I’d like to use titanal that’s 2.5 - 3 in wide in stead of 5.5in wide. But this is all I’ve found so far.
Dont u just score and snap?
sammer wrote: I'm still a tang on top guy.

skidesmond
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Post by skidesmond » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:46 pm

Idk. I cut the sample pieces using tin snips. Not the best way to cut metal. I could try the score and snap method.

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MontuckyMadman
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Post by MontuckyMadman » Wed Oct 18, 2017 5:56 pm

The donek video explins how to cut this material.
sammer wrote: I'm still a tang on top guy.

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chrismp
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Post by chrismp » Wed Oct 18, 2017 11:40 pm

One thing we learned is: Never ever touch it with your bare hands! The grease on your hands will significantly reduce its bonding properties.

skidesmond
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Post by skidesmond » Thu Oct 19, 2017 3:25 am

Thanks. Found the video. In the same video he does the layup,it’s interesting that the titanal is not next to the wood core, the CF is. That’s the opposite that I’ve seen on many of the race and higher end skis. Found a few that have the titanal away from the wood core... guess it depend ;)


Update: the bond between the titanal and other laminates is 100% a-ok. I trimmed the flashing off to a smooth edge. The piece doesn’t flex but the bond is fine. Tried to separate the laminates with a hammer and screw driver and ended up splitting the poplar and the other bonds stayed intact. Even the side without the VDS was fine. I’ll still stick with using VDS for its other properties.
Now it figure out how much titanal is enough. I’m leaning toward just a strip down the middle on top and bottom.

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vinman
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Post by vinman » Wed Oct 25, 2017 4:59 pm

Any updates? I want to play with titanal.... especially now that I have the CNC and can recess it in the core easily....
Fighting gravity on a daily basis
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skidesmond
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Post by skidesmond » Thu Oct 26, 2017 3:38 am

Still gathering info.... Trying to figure out how much titanal to use. In my atomics it has 2 full width sheets but the ski is not overly stiff. Based on my sample piece, which is about 6x8 it won’t flex at all. So I’m leery about using 2 full sheets. Also looks like my atomics don’t have tip fill, based on measuring the thickness of the tip.

Contemplating cutting the titanal in half and use 1 on the bottom and 1 on top and see how that works. Probably have to adjust the thickness of the wood core downward too, maybe to 10mm. Still need enough thickness for bindings... a lot to consider.

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Post by mammuth » Thu Oct 26, 2017 6:51 am

Aluflex are using the titanal as topsheet. There in business for long time and guess where the name is coming from ;)

http://aluflex-fiberflex-greensnowboard.com/3-aluflex
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Post by skidesmond » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:54 pm

For anyone who has used titanal or any metal in their layup... How does the router handle cutting through the metal when beveling the sidewall?? Thinking of using full width titanal. Figured I’d post the question before I ruin a bit or worse ruin the ski. I’m assuming bits of metal will be flying around...

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MontuckyMadman
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Post by MontuckyMadman » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:59 pm

Ive milled the al channel used in snowboards.
Ive heard in those big cnc flash machines they run glycol to cool the bit. Ive heard a bit of vaseline on the bit can help. Yes ot will dull the bit more but u can do it
sammer wrote: I'm still a tang on top guy.

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Post by skidesmond » Sun Nov 19, 2017 7:36 am

Update... I used the router to trim the edge of the sample piece I made and it does work ok. I took a minute shaving off, a bit scary, I think it dulls the router bit pretty quick. Obviously bits of AL scatter about. The titanal Edge had tiny ridges from the router bit which would/should be sanded out.

I think a full width titanal maybe over kill in this particle ski design and be too stiff. For that reason along with the scary factor, I decided to split the titanal in half and use 1 piece on the top of the wood core for each ski.

To split the titanal use a razor and carefully score it. It took me a few passes with the razor, but it does work.

Hope to do the layup tomorrow.

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Post by Cadman » Mon Nov 27, 2017 5:28 pm

[quote="skidesmond" Going for dampness. I have no problem going with 1 layer, just not sure if it should go on the bottom or top. Leaning toward top to aid in binding retention.

Just curious about using one layer of metal. I was taught that you want to create equilibrium in your layup to avoid your ski turning into a "bimetal spring" when your go out on the slope and the ski changes temperature.

Have you ever sighted down your ski after hot waxing it? That will give you
an idea of what happens when the temperatures change on one side of the ski. That is also of good example of what happens in the press when you make the top and bottom temperatures different.

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