alternative sidewall material

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mattman
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alternative sidewall material

Post by mattman »

So I started seeing some ski companies list "phenol" sidewalls. Looking it up on isosport's site there seems to be SKE (melamine and glass composite) and SKP (phenolic and glass or paper composite). Kastle and Blizzard mention phenolic sidewalls, but I would suspect a lot of other companies use it as well (if Isosport lists it). The material is super hard (Rockwell R150...about shore 110D!) and since its epoxy based it seems like it would bond well. Anybody ever try this stuff or have skis with it? I wonder if cracking is a concern. One downside is it is heavy (twice the density of UHMW).

http://www.isosport.com/en/index.php?op ... &Itemid=18

DutchDesigns
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Post by DutchDesigns »

Ive worked with this before in the aircraft composite repair aspect, we called it phenolic spheres. can get alot of differernt types we used fibreglass spheres but sure there are different things that would give better flex. I used it on my skis that I ripped out the edge under foot from sliding rails, I built it back up with the epoxy phenolic mixture and it worked great. Wore down after awhile but once it wore down the skis really locked onto the rails.

mattman
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Post by mattman »

actually thats not the phenolic I was referring to. You are talking about phenolic micro (it looks like red micro balloons). Phenolic sidewalls that are used by many different ski companies is a plate material that is available in many different combinations. Paper/epoxy and fiberglass/epoxy are common combinations although there are many others. Search Garolite or G10 and you will see what I mean. This whole class of products referred to as "phenolics".

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bigKam
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Post by bigKam »

Mattman: I'm testing this stuff right now, so I'll let you know how it turns out as one pair will be sporting some of it. You can get it from McMaster, the Garolite stuff. It is very dense and it does chew up your blades, so take care cutting it. There are paper and fiber type as you mentioned, but try to stay away from stuff that absorbs water. A good friend of mine was the product manager at K2 for 12 years and he says phenolics are very common in the ski industry.

Have you also tried ABS? It seems to bond for me without much prep. It is a little softer though. Some people don't like.

mattman
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Post by mattman »

I really liked G10 for its bondability and hardness. However, I have started using Ipe recently and have high hopes for it. Tough to beat the bondability of wood! I would be very interested to hear the results of your Garolite sidewalls.

powderho
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Post by powderho »

Isn't phenolic stuff really brittle? As hard as it is, it seems like it must be a bit. I would stay away from ABS. It can't take the impacts like UHMW. Not even close really. And when it breaks, it chunks out and you are left with a gaping wound in your skis. At least UHMW just mostly dents and cracks a little. Maple is still my first choice for sidewalls.

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bigKam
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Post by bigKam »

Let's just say that there's more than one type of ABS ;) . And that certain types of phenolics incorporate fibers for reinforcement.

karmav
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Post by karmav »

I use bamboo strips for sidewall material.

knightsofnii
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Post by knightsofnii »

karmav wrote:I use bamboo strips for sidewall material.
this needs a like button...

+1 :)
Doug

OnDeck
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Post by OnDeck »

Are wood sidewalls really all that? Skiers tell me they work for powder, but as soon as hit anything hard your knees are begging for the sweet release of death.

Look awesome though.

twizzstyle
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Post by twizzstyle »

OnDeck wrote:Are wood sidewalls really all that? Skiers tell me they work for powder, but as soon as hit anything hard your knees are begging for the sweet release of death.

Look awesome though.
Can you elaborate on that a little? I'm lost as to how sidewall material will effect binding release? I've done wood sidewalls (bamboo... not technically wood) on the last few pairs I've done just because I've never had good luck profiling cores with UHMWPE sidewalls.

OnDeck
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Post by OnDeck »

Oops, I wasn't very clear.

The wood sidewalls are supposedly super jarring on your knees on the hard stuff. I would think that problem is much worse on skis than on snowboards.

I also heard a little tidbit; 4Front use a certain type of wood for sidewalls (maple?) that will "breathe" a little. The sidewalls are left unsealed to allow the core itself to breathe...supposeldy preserves the snap of the core for longer. Not sure if it's then most brilliant peice of tech, or marketing bs, that i ever heard, but either way i like it enough to want to try it for myself.

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MontuckyMadman
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Post by MontuckyMadman »

pretty sure 4frnt does it for the same reason we do it, ease of manf.
thats a pow ski anyway.
Yes plastic sidewall does provide some dampening but is it noticeable? slightly.
sammer wrote: I'm still a tang on top guy.

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