Bond UHMW(PE)

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Buuk
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Bond UHMW(PE)

Post by Buuk »

Maybe it's because of my English, but everywhere I look on the internet there is written that UHMW(PE) is non-adherent. Does this mean it does not bond good while using epoxie? Because when I informed at a local shop they told me it's very hard to bond because of its large coefficient of expansion and poor bonding properties.
But you all use this? And it works ok?
And is it correct that UHMW(PE) is not the same as ABS??

Thanks, Buuk
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endre
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Post by endre »

I have the same experience with plastic "experts", guess they just don't know that much. Sanding and flametreating works great with both abs and uhmwpe

uhmwpe is not the same as ABS

the thermal expansion thing is correct though, but it doesn't affect the bonding.
Buuk
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Post by Buuk »

Thanks Endre.
By the way, do you know where I can by steel edges without having to buy an entire coil? I only want about 50 edges of 2 metres...
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endre
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Post by endre »

No I'm sorry. If you ever stop by Oslo I can fix you some though..
davide
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Post by davide »

I heard you can order a little as 10 Kg of edges (about 250/300m) from Waelzholz-Huber or Metalldeutsch.
Buuk
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Post by Buuk »

Thanks! Sounds great, you've got a name of someone at one of both companies? So I can contact that person?
davide
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Post by davide »

No, I just know that somebody bought that small quantity, but I dont' know anything else.
Just call them.
Buuk
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Post by Buuk »

I can buy a big sheet (2 metres x 1 metre x 15 mm) of UHMWPE (Werkstoff 'S' 500)
Did anyone ever used this material for sidewalls? Did it bond well after flame treating and sanding?? Did you like to work with it?
Thanks :)
Mutombo
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Post by Mutombo »

Buuk, we´ll be interested in buying the same as you in the future maybe in one or two months. If you want we could do an order together, 10 kg of edges is too much for us.
Buuk
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Post by Buuk »

Hi,

I made a small mistake in an earlier post.
I can buy HMW-PE instead of UHMW-PE.
( PE 1000 = UHMW-PE and PE 500 = HMW-PE)

And my question was if one on you did use HMW-PE??
Because this has a lower impact resistance, but also a lower friction coefficient.

@ Mutombo: I'm busy contacting some edge suppliers in Austria. I'm planning to buy about 30-40 kg, because that's seems to be a minimum if you don't want the edges to be too expensive edges. Of course I will share the edges with some others! So I'll keep you informed.
Buuk
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Post by Buuk »

Today I went to the Adhesion Institute at my university and had a talk with one of the bonding and surface treatment experts overthere.
I simply asked them what is the best way to bond UHMWPE to wood.
He told me it would be the best to corona treat the PE and then glue it within half an our (to keep the treated surface from changing back). He used methacrylate glue for it because of its flexibility (like http://www.hernonmfg.com/fusionbond/index.htm) and thought epoxy would be too brittle (sorry, don't know if this is the correct word for this)
He also told me flame treatment was very difficult to perform outside an industrial environment, because of flame/oxigen ratio, speed, distance etc.

He also gave me the opportunity to use the corona treatment at their adhesive lab to make some samples and glue the sidewalls to the core.
Maybe I can also perform some stress / shear tests overthere. I will keep you up-to-date if I have been testing.


Buuk
G-man
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Post by G-man »

Hey Buuk,

Great information. What good fortune you have in having access to an 'Adhesion Institute'. I look very forward to the results of your stress/shear testing. I am currently building a flame treating unit in which I can adjust and control the gas/oxygen mixture, the distance from the flame, and the travel speed through the flame. I'll also be doing a lot of bond strength testing, so maybe we can compare results between corona treatment and flame treatment. My test samples are 8cm long, 3cm wide, and 1cm thick. The test uses a lap joint with a 4cm overlap. I then place one end of the test sample in a vise and use a torque wrench to stress the bond joint to the point of failure. I'm running tests on both UHMW and ABS (both standard and engineering grades).

G-man
garye@crownplastics.com
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bonding uhmw

Post by garye@crownplastics.com »

Flaming will work significantly better than corona treatment, which is usually used on melt processable materials and thin films to eliminate melting and distortion.
mark
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Post by mark »

Gary,

Do you know of a reliable way to flame treat UHMW at home?
knightsofnii
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Post by knightsofnii »

took the following from a page i found via google:
http://www.idspackaging.com/Common/Pape ... erview.htm

==================================

INTRODUCTION

Necessity of Surface Treatment

Generally, plastics have chemically inert and nonporous surfaces with low surface tensions causing them to be non-receptive to bonding with substrates, printing inks, coatings, and adhesives. Polyethylene and polypropylene are the lowest in surface energy of the various plastics and are the two materials most often subjected to surface treatment to improve their bonding characteristic (1) (2) (3).

Surface treatment, however, is not limited to these two materials and can be used to improve the bonding ability of virtually all-plastic materials as well as some non-plastic materials. The two non-plastic materials most often subjected to surface treatment are foil and paper. All substrates, plastics, films, paper and foils provide a better bonding surface when they are treated at the time they are produced. This application is referred to as post-treatment and is used to enhance adhesion to the surface of other converting processes such as printing, adhesive lamination, etc.

Methods of Improving Surface Tension

The four methods by which surface treatment is accomplished are as follows (4):

Corona discharge (5) (6) (7).
Etching with acid or plasma.
Flame treatment (8).
Priming (9).
Priming is still frequently used alone or in combination with corona discharge treating. Another method used almost exclusively in extrusion coating is ozone treatment.

Flame and etching are frequently used for molded or blow-molded parts. Flame treatment of film and sheet had been almost completely supplanted by corona discharge surface treaters. However, flame treating has seen a comeback recently, especially on paperboard or milk carton stock.

Flame Treatment

Four variables control the optimum treatment conditions of a flame, they are:

Air-to-Gas Ratio
BTU (kJ) Output of the Burner
Distance of Surface from Flame Tips
Dwell Time of Surface in Oxidizing Zone
Figure 1 is an overall flow diagram of the various components of a flame treatment system. A high-volume, low-pressure centrifugal air blower moves a column of air through a venturi mixer. The venturi section is adapted with a needle valve to pull gas according to demand from a pressure-regulated gas line.

The resulting air/gas mixture, with a 5 to 15% excess of air, is conveyed to the burner face and ignited. The flame’s oxidizing zone, which is optimum at 3/8” to ½” from the flame tip, impacts on the substrate surface and the excess oxygen activated by the high temperatures combines with carbon molecules to form the polar groupings generally associated with an oxidized surface. The treated surface is approximately one molecular layer thick.

==============================

I wonder if the issues we have after flame treating are due to this treatment only going one molecule deep


anyone know if the same flaming has to be done to polyeurethane?
Doug
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