I hope to be pressing this weekend and plan on using a vaneer topsheet. After reading posts on vaneer topsheet use, I began to wonder if it would be good to stain the vaneer prior to the layup?
I will wet out the vaneer botton and top prior to pressing and am not too worried about blotches others have had (due to no epoxy on top). My thought is a better or enhanced looking grain pattern with the use of stain. Others have said they were going to try it but i can't seem to find their results. Anyone have any ideas on the pros and cons for this?
Another question is the 1/42" vaneer has a paper backing. I figure this is standard and will be of no concern? Normal layup with the paper backing?
Thanks for any help.
ra
Vaneer: Stain or not?
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MontuckyMadman
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what veneer is it?
If its a really light color you might want to stain.
I used non paper backed 1/42" bubinga. They came out super light and look amazing.
I know shopvac used the paper backed stuff with no prob.
The splotches that we saw were from the epoxy not fullly penetrating but it was minor, and disappeared after some poly on top.
I would suggest a skim coat on the layup side to help combat dryness.
I would not suggest a coat on the topside at teh time of layup atleast not for a fibrous type of wood.
What ever your veneer looks like right now if you get a spot wet is what it will look like when it comes out of the press.
Staining is personal preference.
I would stain a part of the flash as a tester and then even maybe poly that spot to see what she will look like.
If its a really light color you might want to stain.
I used non paper backed 1/42" bubinga. They came out super light and look amazing.
I know shopvac used the paper backed stuff with no prob.
The splotches that we saw were from the epoxy not fullly penetrating but it was minor, and disappeared after some poly on top.
I would suggest a skim coat on the layup side to help combat dryness.
I would not suggest a coat on the topside at teh time of layup atleast not for a fibrous type of wood.
What ever your veneer looks like right now if you get a spot wet is what it will look like when it comes out of the press.
Staining is personal preference.
I would stain a part of the flash as a tester and then even maybe poly that spot to see what she will look like.
I recently used engineered wood veneer that is pre-stained and the result was fantastic.
After pressing I sanded the surface and applied fir some sealer to gurantee adesion and the a poliurethanic base and an high resistence finished.
If the veneer is pre stained I think that it is much easier the finishing because is reduced the risk of over sanding and finding the non stained part of the veneer.
After pressing I sanded the surface and applied fir some sealer to gurantee adesion and the a poliurethanic base and an high resistence finished.
If the veneer is pre stained I think that it is much easier the finishing because is reduced the risk of over sanding and finding the non stained part of the veneer.
I forget the actual wood but it is light in color. that is why I was considering the stain prior to layup. I read you earlier post about the "splotches" and this is why I was also considering the top coat of epoxy durring the layup. My concern was adheason after the stain. Also if you stain and epoxy, will the stain help seal the wood so there is not too much saturation of the epoxy? (weight)
Thanks for the imput!
ra
Thanks for the imput!
ra
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MontuckyMadman
- Posts: 2395
- Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 9:41 pm
If you want to avoid getting splotches of epoxy on the top of your veneer, apply some sticky-back plastic (I call it mac-tac) to it before it even comes near any epoxy. You'll be able to peel it off after it's laminated on, and you can seal it however you like.
If you're worried about bonding issues after staining, just use water-based stain. (You can even use food colouring to get funky colours!)
If you're worried about bonding issues after staining, just use water-based stain. (You can even use food colouring to get funky colours!)
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Head Monkey
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Your mileage will likely vary with the type of wood, type of epoxy, and amount of heat. I’ve been using some birds eye maple, ~0.020” thick, no paper backing. The resin bleeds through small pores in the birds eye maple right through to the top, so you end up with epoxy on top even if you didn’t put any there. First time I did it I almost had a board glued to the aluminum top skin! Also, for me, the maple darkens substantially vs what you would see with a normal clear coat with the combination of epoxy, heat, and pressure. Remove one, it does not darken nearly as much. People assume I’ve stained the maple, but I haven’t.
Your best bet is to do a test lamination and see what you get with a little 2”x2” piece of veneer.
There are a bunch of pictures of the birds eye maple, wet with epoxy on top and bottom during layup, then sanded and coated with clear poly on this page: http://www.happymonkeysnowboards.com/HMS/boards/
Good luck!
Your best bet is to do a test lamination and see what you get with a little 2”x2” piece of veneer.
There are a bunch of pictures of the birds eye maple, wet with epoxy on top and bottom during layup, then sanded and coated with clear poly on this page: http://www.happymonkeysnowboards.com/HMS/boards/
Good luck!
Everything I know about snowboard building, almost: MonkeyWiki, a guide to snowboard construction
Free open source ski and snowboard CADCAM: MonkeyCAM, snoCAD-X
Free open source ski and snowboard CADCAM: MonkeyCAM, snoCAD-X
Thanks for the input.
I will do some test today. I will be doing epoxy on the top either way. I have been doing this for the cloth and it seems to add a protective layer. Some have been poly coated over that and some not. Those with out have shown some more fading than others (although that ski in particular has had more use = exposure). So the test will include one just epoxy and one with stain and epoxy.
Heat for the press will be achieved by way of a pellet stove in the room. Prior temps were about 100 to 125* So I don't think this will be so hot to discolor / darken the wood but hwo knows?
ra
Mike- I took a look at you site and I think the top looks great without any stain. I guess what I want is for the grain pattern to stand out, not so much for color enhancing. If that make sence.
I will do some test today. I will be doing epoxy on the top either way. I have been doing this for the cloth and it seems to add a protective layer. Some have been poly coated over that and some not. Those with out have shown some more fading than others (although that ski in particular has had more use = exposure). So the test will include one just epoxy and one with stain and epoxy.
Heat for the press will be achieved by way of a pellet stove in the room. Prior temps were about 100 to 125* So I don't think this will be so hot to discolor / darken the wood but hwo knows?
ra
Mike- I took a look at you site and I think the top looks great without any stain. I guess what I want is for the grain pattern to stand out, not so much for color enhancing. If that make sence.
We have used paper backing on one set of skis. I don't think I will buy any more veneer with the paper backing but it does seem to be holding up pretty well. We have used non paper backed veneer on 4 other skis and they are doing great. We haven't used stain on any of the skis but we have finished all of the skis with the poly spar urethane (2 coats). We have done a couple skis with epoxy on the tops and some without. Like Head Monkey mentioned before, the epoxy squeezed through to the tops when we tired to keep the tops free of epoxy. Applying the poly coat makes it look more uniform.
ra...
while I haven't used stain in a ski yet I've been trying to find a good one that will work.
All the water based stains I've sampled turned a strange pinkish color when dry
I recently built a pair with red oak veneer I put the clear uhmw top sheet on top.
The epoxy darkened the wood and brought out the grain nicely.
The top sheet as always leaves a nice shiny tough finish and of coarse UV protection.
Pics in my log here,
http://www.skibuilders.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 7&start=42
sam
while I haven't used stain in a ski yet I've been trying to find a good one that will work.
All the water based stains I've sampled turned a strange pinkish color when dry
I recently built a pair with red oak veneer I put the clear uhmw top sheet on top.
The epoxy darkened the wood and brought out the grain nicely.
The top sheet as always leaves a nice shiny tough finish and of coarse UV protection.
Pics in my log here,
http://www.skibuilders.com/phpBB2/viewt ... 7&start=42
sam
You don't even have a legit signature, nothing to reveal who you are and what you do...
Best of luck to you. (uneva)
Best of luck to you. (uneva)
Regarding the finish with veneer I prefer a sprayed PU finish instead of a clear topsheet.
The final look if definitely more natural in particular if you use a low gloss finish.
Concerning the UV protection it is possible to use UV shield additive to add to the finish and this really helps in avoiding the venner to become yellow.
In Italy together with natural veneer it is possible to find multilaminar wood veneer that gives you unlimited choices.
Here are a couple of links:
http://www.alpi.it/uk/ListaProdotti.asp?IDSC=14
http://www.tabu.it/piallacci%20MW.htm
The final look if definitely more natural in particular if you use a low gloss finish.
Concerning the UV protection it is possible to use UV shield additive to add to the finish and this really helps in avoiding the venner to become yellow.
In Italy together with natural veneer it is possible to find multilaminar wood veneer that gives you unlimited choices.
Here are a couple of links:
http://www.alpi.it/uk/ListaProdotti.asp?IDSC=14
http://www.tabu.it/piallacci%20MW.htm
Well I pressed the skis today. Headed to the shop in the AM. It was 38* outside and probable the same inside! I cranked up the pellet stove and moved the press into the room. I went back to to the shop later to begin. Things seemed to go fine. As I was leaving the shop to return to the house, It started to snow (2000' evevation). Now that has to be a good omen?. I will let cure overnight and remove in the morning. The room was up to 110* later on today.
I went ahead and epoxied the top. The samples looked good. Seems to really bring out the grain. After the flash is cut, I will start to look into some type of clear coat to protect from the sun.
Thanks to all for the input ont his. I will post a pic once out of the press.
BTW The vaneer is Cherry.
ra
I went ahead and epoxied the top. The samples looked good. Seems to really bring out the grain. After the flash is cut, I will start to look into some type of clear coat to protect from the sun.
Thanks to all for the input ont his. I will post a pic once out of the press.
BTW The vaneer is Cherry.
ra
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Head Monkey
- Posts: 310
- Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 4:53 pm
- Location: Carnation, WA
- Contact:
Since you were laminating a board with your first veneer top sheet today, I decided the next update to my site should be how I finish my veneer top sheets. Here you go: http://www.happymonkeysnowboards.com/HM ... op-sheets/ I hope this helps you and others out. There’s 16 pictures there of the process from beginning to end, though I just realized that I left out how I actually screen on the graphics… I’ll add that another day…
I like bird’s eye maple because of the extremely tight grain. If the cherry you used has a deeper grain then watch out when you sand it for the first time… you may find that fine dust gets trapped in the grain, which can be a bit annoying on darker woods. I did a Honduras Mahogany once that looks like crap because I could never get the white epoxy dust out of the deep, deep grain.
Good luck,
Mike
I like bird’s eye maple because of the extremely tight grain. If the cherry you used has a deeper grain then watch out when you sand it for the first time… you may find that fine dust gets trapped in the grain, which can be a bit annoying on darker woods. I did a Honduras Mahogany once that looks like crap because I could never get the white epoxy dust out of the deep, deep grain.
Good luck,
Mike
Everything I know about snowboard building, almost: MonkeyWiki, a guide to snowboard construction
Free open source ski and snowboard CADCAM: MonkeyCAM, snoCAD-X
Free open source ski and snowboard CADCAM: MonkeyCAM, snoCAD-X
WOW, What a night. Woke up at 3:30 when the power went out. Had to get up to unplug all the electronics.
Important to note the skis are OKAY! Went down today to release them from the press and I must say, I am pleased with the way they came out.
I will post a few pics when the power comes back on (estimated at 21:00hours)
Another note...Over 10" of snow at the house! Never before in the 14 years here. The boys (school cancelled) brought out their snow boards and were jumping / riding off the roof of the barn. What next?
ra
Important to note the skis are OKAY! Went down today to release them from the press and I must say, I am pleased with the way they came out.
I will post a few pics when the power comes back on (estimated at 21:00hours)
Another note...Over 10" of snow at the house! Never before in the 14 years here. The boys (school cancelled) brought out their snow boards and were jumping / riding off the roof of the barn. What next?
ra