The search is ON! Why are we getting bent over for VDS?

skidesmond · Post by **skidesmond** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 3:48 am

I was at the McMaster-Carr website (http://www.mcmaster.com/ ) . They seem to have everything. I noticed under the Raw Material category they have plastic ( http://www.mcmaster.com/#plastics/=6fw2bo ) and rubber films ( http://www.mcmaster.com/#rubber/=6fw2lk ).

I don't anything about the products there but maybe somebody in the forum who has more knowledge in plastics/rubber could give us more insight if the products are usable in ski/board building. Also some of the products seem expensive, so maybe it doesn't help us out.

heliski989 · Post by **heliski989** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:52 am

skidesmond wrote:I was at the McMaster-Carr website (http://www.mcmaster.com/ ) . They seem to have everything. I noticed under the Raw Material category they have plastic ( http://www.mcmaster.com/#plastics/=6fw2bo ) and rubber films ( http://www.mcmaster.com/#rubber/=6fw2lk ).

I don't anything about the products there but maybe somebody in the forum who has more knowledge in plastics/rubber could give us more insight if the products are usable in ski/board building. Also some of the products seem expensive, so maybe it doesn't help us out.

I took a look at this. The problem is it is Latex Rubber, not different than the latex gloves you use for layup. I have ordered samples of this material before, but it just wont work.

We are looking for a Vulcanized Rubber. Not that i know what that means, but yeah. thats what VDS is.

Docta · Post by **Docta** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:29 am

Found this on the site:

Rubber selector pack, Does anybody know which of these rubbers is likely to bond?

If not, this could be ordered and could be used for testing for epoxy bonding testing...

Selector Pack Includes
Includes one individually marked piece Buna-N, Butyl, ECH, EPDM, Gum, Hypalon, Latex, Neoprene, Polyurethane, Santoprene, SBR, Silicone, Vinyl, and Viton® Fluoroelastomer Rubber. Sizes from 4" x 4" to 6" x 6". Thicknesses from 1/16" to 1/8".

$43

http://www.mcmaster.com/#rubber/=6fz0kz

Docta · Post by **Docta** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:38 am

A placed a call, they should respond today with information on which of these products binds well with epoxy.... ill post when I get it.

Docta · Post by **Docta** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:21 am

See response below:

We are unable to make product recommendations for specific applications. We have an extensive selection of rubber on our website, www.mcmaster.com, starting on page 3498. All of our product information (density, durometer, abrasion resistance, etc.) is listed there. Please take a look at the “About Rubber and Polyurethane” at the top of 3498 as this make help you narrow your search. You can also search our website for “Rubber” and begin to narrow your search that way.

Mark

McMaster-Carr

Seems to be hinting polyurethane might work. I remember reading a thread somewher on here about someone using polyurethane as edgewall material, so I imagine they got a good bind.... I wonder what durometer would work best.... anybody think this is worth a try?

Docta · Post by **Docta** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:42 am

never mind, they want 6-10$ a foot at 12" width

http://www.mcmaster.com/#rubber/=6g0pnu

the thinninst available, at 4 inches wide, they want 2.10$/foot for, may be able to replace regular VDS as edge strips, but I was really looking for tip and tail spacers.

MontuckyMadman · Post by **MontuckyMadman** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 12:28 pm

If its a vulcanized rubber it has a natural source derivative with added stabilizers and more chemicals all cooked at high temp. The fancy rubber place in MI would have been able to determine what it is.
They said a synthetic so maybe a poly

This stuff is soft so it has a high durmometer # if memory serves? Maybe its a low #. IDK??

heliski989 · Post by **heliski989** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:03 pm

chrismp · Post by **chrismp** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 1:47 pm

we're using polyurethane D44 with 90° shore A for our sidewalls and tipspacers. works like a charm, no delamination. but that stuff is pretty tough to machine, so we're going to try to pour our own sidewalls with it to keep the machining to a minimum.
still, we're putting vds above our edges...dunno if its necessary though.

Docta · Post by **Docta** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 2:34 pm

I pour Polyurethane for other projects, I was just thinking earlier about making some molds from a tip and tail spacer template and pouring my own...

Montucky.... Durometer ratings increase with hardness.

30 is pretty soft, 50 is still compressible and flexible by hand, will indent with thump pressure, 100 is almost solid like plastic.

chrismp what is your source, and is it cheaper than mentioned aboove?

skibum · Post by **skibum** » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:03 pm

So the prices I got were
150 x 0.2 mm black
rolls are 70m long
prices are in Euros but convert to $172US per 70m roll of 15cm wide foil

1 sample roll of 150 x 2.1 mm black; price is $159US/15m sample roll

I heard Prior uses the same material they use for golf balls in their skis. So it looks like it could be ionomer resin or balata rubber.

CDW is charging $54/70m of 1" 0.2mm foil

chrismp · Post by **chrismp** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 2:49 am

we're getting our PU from Asma in Austria (www.asma.at). for our first boards we had some sheet PU cut to our needs. price was about 16eur for tipspacers and sidewalls for one snowboard.
now we have 2.4kg of PU-resin that cost us 40eur...don't know how many boards we'll get out of it yet. do you have any experiences on this from your other projects?

redbull · Post by **redbull** » Wed Mar 31, 2010 8:24 pm

chrismp wrote:we're using polyurethane D44 with 90° shore A for our sidewalls and tipspacers. works like a charm, no delamination.

I guess this is getting off topic... but gotta ask. What is your process for using polyurethane (eg. sanding? flame-treating? primer?) Have had no issues bonding it?

chrismp · Post by **chrismp** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:39 am

redbull wrote:
chrismp wrote:we're using polyurethane D44 with 90° shore A for our sidewalls and tipspacers. works like a charm, no delamination.
I guess this is getting off topic... but gotta ask. What is your process for using polyurethane (eg. sanding? flame-treating? primer?) Have had no issues bonding it?

sanding doesnt work...not even a scratch on that stuff!! we tried flame treating but it didnt have any impact on bonding. so what we do is just clean the it with acetone before lay-up and thats it. no issues with bonding.
for bonding the pre-cut sidewalls to the core we found polyurethane glue to work best (had bad results with cyanoacrylate).

chaka · Post by **chaka** » Thu Apr 01, 2010 3:35 pm

chrismp wrote:we're getting our PU from Asma in Austria (www.asma.at). for our first boards we had some sheet PU cut to our needs. price was about 16eur for tipspacers and sidewalls for one snowboard.
now we have 2.4kg of PU-resin that cost us 40eur...don't know how many boards we'll get out of it yet. do you have any experiences on this from your other projects?

So they sent you pu tipspacers cut to your needs and profiled sidewalls for 16 euros? that sounds great, please give us more info about, it: type of pu, colour, did they make this for you from cad files you sent?.

I have already tries casting pu sidewalls. Good bonding with epoxy but lots of air bubbles. I have also tried pu combined with wood for cores, excellet results. I am very interested in rubber and pu for ski building.

Guess that vds rubber is not needed when using pu sidewalls, what do you think about this?.

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The search is ON! Why are we getting bent over for VDS?