Half Pipe Skis

[Cadman]

I have a person interested in building a good half pipe ski and I have no idea what kind of characteristics are needed to get it to perform well. Anybody out there who can translate performance into features that are needed on this kind of ski? Do snowboards have the same kind of features? How about Shawn White? Do you think his boards are what help him do so well or is it just raw talent?

[knightsofnii]

try tanner hall, scope out the freestyle ski companies and check the specs, i dont know if there's a pipe specific ski out there yet, as most of the pipe guys all also do park/rails/all out freestylin, i'd think if you can nail a good overall freestyle ski it will perform fine in pipe

maybe just stiffen it up a pinch

[falls]

Armada make a ski called the "pipe cleaner" that is a pipe specific design.
http://www.armadaskis.com/product/skis/pipe_cleaner.php

I would think these days that people who are really looking to ski newschool trciks in the pipe will be looking for a symmetrical ski in dimensions and also flex so that they ski identically regular and switch when boot centre is mounted at core centre. Waist of park/pipe skis is generally about 85mm. Tip and tail 110-120mm
Park skis tend to be less stiff than an all mountain ski, but the pipe is generally a pretty icey place so edge hold will be important. I would think some camber to increase "pop" would be in order +/- carbon strips (some companies market and "ollie band" of multiple thin carbon strips). I don't know that there would be a great need for any rocker on pipe skis, but maybe this would reduce the chances of catching an edge when you land without quite completing a rotation.
Twin tip
Minimise swing weight to help rotation.
Durable construction.

[MBsnow]

I think falls nailed it. Im a snowboarder so I can't suggest length and waist width, but I can say that you would want a true twin design for regular and switch sking. Pipes are icy so you want a good edge hold maybe try a Magne style edge, I have done the same with one of my boards and it eats ice sometimes a little to much. My design has 8 waves instead of 4 and has a 2MM hill and valley depth very aggressive compared to LIB. I don't ride pipe so Im not sure what to suggest as far as regular camber, negative, or multiple cambered designs. I would guess a regular or multiple cambered design would increase edge hold. Light is good. Always durable construction.

[MontuckyMadman]

aren't the cores on most pipe and park skis have those butter zones where you have a larger flat spot underfoot with a really steep taper to make the nose and tail pretty soft?
I also thought they were finding rocker to be important in the park for shorter running length ease of spin and quick turn.

[falls]

A lot of park skiers like some rocker in the tip/tail because it makes smears and nose/tail presses easier. Park skis are generally shorter than the length you would ride for all mountain/BC (yep helps you spin more easily, lighter weight, better balance). I think if you rockered the tip/tail it would be a minimal rocker and you would definitely still want camber between your contact points. Rocker isn't a fad, but in the park it might be?
I reckon the pipe is a bit different to the park though too because of the ice factor (I know parks get pretty icey too!). I would probably want as much edge as possible. Pipes scare me a bit!

@MB: How was the edge bending on your rippled edges? Nightmarish?

I had read about butter zones and knew what they were meant to do, but didn't ever know how they achieved it.

[AlexF]

Park skis and pipe skis are starting to go on divergent paths.

There a lot of 'pure' park ski coming out in the next season and they're already a few out there. The new park skis are going reverse camber in the tip and tail so that they easy to butter and spin off the tips/tails. E.g. armada alpha one and two, Moment make a couple of varieties. Park skis are also softer in general (which I hate but I'm quite big).

Pipe skis on the other hand are becoming more race ski like; high end sintered bases, 7xxx aluminium plates (I refuse to call an aluinium with a 7xxx composition and no titanium in it at all by its gimmicky trademark) and pretty stiff. I think that some of the skis athletes are using are starting to differ from the ones sold in stores (like race stocks). I know for a fact that Tanner Hall had sheets of 7xxx in his Pipe Cleaners in the 08/09 season even though the ones in the stores didn't. If its a pure/competition pipe ski then stiffen it up a bit from a regular park ski. You'll be able to get a little bit more out of the ski when you pump the walls.

Some pipe skis are fully symmetrical and some aren't (e.g. pipe cleaner). I'm not sure which I prefer yet. I think I'd probably go for a slightly narrower tail than tipbut wouldn't be too worried about it. For some reason little kids on NS think its cool to have their skis centre mounted but if you consider you centre of gravity flexing over you boots you'll end up being forward of centre if you centre mount. I mount mine 5cm back from centre (I measure it rather than trust the markings on the ski) and think thats a pretty good seet up for park or pipe. I kind of know a few pros (My Friend's a Pro!) and they look like they're probably a few cm back from centre.

Another difference is the way the skis are tuned. Park skis are heavily detuned to stop the edges catching and make buttering and rails smoother. Pipe skis are kept razor sharp. Well, mine aren't as they're also my park skis but the Pros I know keep their pipe skis in good shape (or at least their coach does).

[Cadman]

Good information. Thanks to everyone participating. So it appears that the shape of the ski would be pretty much normal with the waist behind the mrs for a half pipe ski. That would be about 55-60mm behind the MRS. That would put the ball of your foot right on the MRS. I am stoked about using that Marker Schizo binding that you can dial the position of your boot with one screw on the front of the binding. The toe and heel move together at the same time. No re-adjusting of the forward pressure. It is real quick to change.
Yes, the Titanol is just 7075-T6 Aluminum with a open-pore phosphoric acid anodised process for helping with bonding. I did not see any titanium listed on the chemical chart.

[falls]

yeah those schizos are great for the home/small ski builder in their development phase.
probably good for anyone really. Of all the skis I have owned they have always been mounted once and never changed. I have always wondered how they would be with a different binding or mounting point.

[Cadman]

Moving the binding even 1 cm makes alot of difference in the way a ski initiates. I was really suprised. The binding marks for most skis are an average of where they think you should mount the center of the boot. Most womens skis are mounted 1 cm ahead of the normal mounting spot on a ski that is not woman specific. That is because of the different center of gravity that women have. The main thing is the slight difference between where the ball of your foot lies and the center of your boot. A guy with a size 12 boot is going to have more distance between the ball of his foot and the center of the boot than a guy with a size 7 so that difference could mean alot in the way your ski performs. Some people have short squatty feet while others have long skinny feet so mounting those diffeent shapes would put the ball of the foot in a different location using the same ski which in my opinion would change how the ski initiates.

The great thing about this binding is that if you are a park skier and don't have a bunch of different skis to ski on, you can move the bindings very easily when you want to get out of the park and head out back to do some powder skiing. With a park ski mount, it makes it more difficult to keep the tips from diving out in the powder. No need to screw around making sure that you have the forward pressure correct. Nothing changes but the position on the ski.

[AlexF]

When you mount your ski measure the centreline position with a tape measure and base your mounting points on that. Don't trust the markings!

[Jekul]

If you're not too concerned about it you could also buy a demo binding. This would give you even more flexibility to change your boot position on the ski. Plus you can buy a Look PX-12 demo binding for about half the price of the marker schizo.