Painters plastic / adhesive

For discussions related to the type of materials to build skis/snowboards and where to get them.

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Bambi
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Painters plastic / adhesive

Post by Bambi »

A lot of people discuss the use of adhesive to protect the base and topsheet during pressing. I note that a lot of people have had a lot of problems in this area with adhesive sticking etc..

Does anyone have a specific adhesive that they have used sucessfully?

Is that what peelply is?

Also when people 'wrap' their skis in painters plastic how do you avoid getting wrinkles? It seems that this is hard - particularly on the topside...

Thanks again for all the help...

B
Mutombo
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Post by Mutombo »

Good question, i´m still trying to solve it
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littleKam
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Post by littleKam »

I like to use adhesive to protect my bases and topsheets from epoxy and I haven't had any problems so far. For my last few pairs of skis I used a cheap roll of laminating adhesive (the kind of stuff you laminate papers with) that I bought for $5 at Wal-Mart. It comes in foot wide rolls so it'll cover your bases and topsheets in one single pass.

As for the wrapping of the skis in plastic I use the following found on this page:
http://www.skibuilders.com/howto/layup/layup.shtml
Specifically, look at step 11. Before I actually wrap the ski I put a smooth, piece of plastic (that doesn't bond to epoxy of course) on top of the layup. This leaves a clean finish without wrinkles.

Good luck!
- Kam S Leang (aka Little Kam)
G-man
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Post by G-man »

Hey Little Kam,

I've also been using a layer of 1/16th inch thick HDPE for a smoothing layer directly above the ski lay-up. It works well in that epoxy doesn't stick to it and it leaves the top sheet nice and smooth. But, on the downside, it gets really warped/wavey from the heat after a a couple of pressings. I've been thinking of switching to an aluminum sheet instead. It would have to be treated with a release agent of some sort prior to use so that the epoxy would not stick to it... do you (or anyone else) have any ideas on what product would work? I'm sure that the production builders who use aluminum cassettes must use some type of release agent. Once in awhile I accidently get a llittle epoxy on my bottom mold aluminum sheet and it's really difficult to get off... it wouldn't hurt to put some release agent on that sheet also.

As always, thanks to all,

G-man
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littleKam
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Post by littleKam »

hey G-man,

I've never even thought of the difficulties with the plastic warping because my press isn't heated. But good point! I asked my local plastics supplier a while back about releasing agents. Pretty funny but according to him most mold makers use PAM (the cooking spray) as a releasing agent. I've never tried it but he seemed pretty confident that it would work. It's worth a try!
- Kam S Leang (aka Little Kam)
Bambi
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Post by Bambi »

So Kam uses laminating adhesive - succsessful with no heat.

What are people with heated presses using? The same stuff or does the heat cause it to melt / stick etc...

Thanks again...

B.
Rich C
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Post by Rich C »

I have been using this

http://www.pro-tect.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=40

for my top sheets but it it doesn't stick especially well to the bases. I dont know how it handle a heated press.

Regarding the bases, has anyone tried applying a coat of ski wax (like a base prep wax) to the base prior to pressing? It seems like that should prevent epoxy from sticking to the base and you dont have to worry about cleaning it off.
kelvin
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Post by kelvin »

I've been using a thin sheet of UHMW on the top. It makes a nice smooth top, but it does warp with the heat. The warpage doesn't seem to make a difference though. We haven't been using any tape because it melts with the heat. The small amount of epoxy that gets on the base comes off after a good belt grind.

I spray the aluminum on our mold with PAM cooking spray. The cured epoxy pops right off.

-kelvin
G-man
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Post by G-man »

PAM, eh. Thanks Little Kam. I'll give a test.

I've used the Costco variety of packing tape to protect my bases. On some gray base material that I got cheap from Durasurf, it was a nightmare... came off in little 2-3mm pieces while scraping with a sharp knife... took hours. The same tape, used under the same conditions, but on black base material, came off smoothly in one single big piece... took a few seconds. Anybody want some gray base material... real cheap?

I'm going to try the protective film that Rich C uses, and I'll try it in the heated press. It might be a month or so before I get around to pressing, though. I'll post the results.

Kelvin, I just saw your post regarding PAM. Thanks much. Its on my shopping list. And I may just try pressing a pair without any protective film at all... maybe the epoxy that might get on the base just isn't t as big of an issue as I've thought. Wow, a lot of great info on the forum today!

G-man
Bambi
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Post by Bambi »

My worry about using pam to prevent adhesive sticking to the base is that under pressure it could migrate between the edges and the base material thus preventing a good bod in this area....

Any comments / experience here?

Has anyone else had a chance to test different tapes with heated presses yet?

B.
kelvin
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Post by kelvin »

I use the PAM to prevent epoxy from sticking to the mold, not the base of the ski. I spray the aluminum and wipe it around with a paper towel, like greasing a baking pan. Then I lay a sheet of parchment paper and do the ski layup on top of that. Your ski should never come into contact with the release agent so it shouldn't affect the bonding.

-kelvin
Bambi
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Post by Bambi »

... what do you use to stop epoxy sticking to the base of the ski? No one seems to have identified a good solution for heated presses from what I can tell?

Thx.

B.
Greg
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Post by Greg »

For my last two pairs of skis I experimented with a strange method. First, I grease up the base and edges with Crisco (it's designed for cooking in ovens, so I figured it would work in my heated press). Then, I use Ceran Wrap (the self adhering stuff that seems to stick to everything) and lay it over the greased up base. It sticks pretty well, and it is extremely easy to get off. A little soap and the grease just wipes away. The best part though is that this method is very inexpensive.
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