Ski building awesomeness 12/13
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Sidewalls are going to be the death of me...
this image is a second side wall that I ended up attaching after my first failure. I profiled it by itself and then glued it to the core and sent it trough the planner to even it up with the core and on the last pass it sucked the core up into the knives (there was not tape under this section)
Third attempt. I made the side walls longer and taped under the full length of the sidewall extended piece. this one failed four passes from the last and then I took it down the rest of the way without issue.
My new least favorite sound: WAAAAHAHAHA CHATA CHATA ERRRRRR
very similar to what Cornice was seeing:
viewtopic.php?t=3934&postdays=0&postord ... bdebafabcb
and its always in the tips... I tried a block of wood in front of it. I've made the side wall pieces longer and placed carpet tape all the way into the extended sidewall piece.
i did a sidewall by itself in the planner. no issues. help a brother out. this blows.
this image is a second side wall that I ended up attaching after my first failure. I profiled it by itself and then glued it to the core and sent it trough the planner to even it up with the core and on the last pass it sucked the core up into the knives (there was not tape under this section)
Third attempt. I made the side walls longer and taped under the full length of the sidewall extended piece. this one failed four passes from the last and then I took it down the rest of the way without issue.
My new least favorite sound: WAAAAHAHAHA CHATA CHATA ERRRRRR
very similar to what Cornice was seeing:
viewtopic.php?t=3934&postdays=0&postord ... bdebafabcb
and its always in the tips... I tried a block of wood in front of it. I've made the side wall pieces longer and placed carpet tape all the way into the extended sidewall piece.
i did a sidewall by itself in the planner. no issues. help a brother out. this blows.
Dude, I feel your pain. Scrap em' and go wood sidewall. There are lighter dense hardwoods that make a great sidewall. Look better too in my opinion. I bought a sheet of Crown Sidewall When I first got going. Have not touched it. Its not just lost materia it those situations, its the time thats kills me!My wife already tells me i spend to much time on building. She thinks its just an excuse to escape and enjoy drinking beer
And when the something goes wrong, you cant enen enjoy the beer
And when the something goes wrong, you cant enen enjoy the beer
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- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:25 pm
- Location: Kenmore, Wa USA
Ugh, those images are SOOO familiar. I can remember being on the verge of tears a few times, that can be SO frustrating when it is going so well. "Looks like it's done! I think I'll do one more light pass just to clean it up". So many times.
I wonder if my method of holding things down in my CNC (the vinyl application tape, and spray glue) would work for a planer too. It just gives you more "holding surface area" than just hot glue on the sides.
I wonder if my method of holding things down in my CNC (the vinyl application tape, and spray glue) would work for a planer too. It just gives you more "holding surface area" than just hot glue on the sides.
I've had this happen on occasion. The best thing I can tell you is to hot glue the tip and tail down to your sled and check for early signs that things are vibrating loose. There is typically some minor damage a couple passes before things explode. If I see that happening I stop and re glue, add more glue, or what ever to keep things firmly down to the sled.
I check the tip and tail for these signs after every pass. At the first sign of damage, stop and re glue, don't think the next pass with smooth things out.
I check the tip and tail for these signs after every pass. At the first sign of damage, stop and re glue, don't think the next pass with smooth things out.
Fighting gravity on a daily basis
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
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- Location: Western Mass, USA
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That's one reason I have not tried UMHW sidewalls. The key is to keep that part of the ski secure to the sled. It's the vibrations and sniping that's inherent in bench top planers. Wood sidewalls/tips/tails can get chewed from sniping.
There's a planing technique called railroading that helps element sniping might work for limited the UMHW sidewall tear out. Either have an extra long tip/tail or send in a piece of scrap in front of the core, followed by the core. That could be difficult to do when using a sled.
There's a planing technique called railroading that helps element sniping might work for limited the UMHW sidewall tear out. Either have an extra long tip/tail or send in a piece of scrap in front of the core, followed by the core. That could be difficult to do when using a sled.
- threeninethree
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- Location: Massachusetts
Try taking a belt sander to them(tips & tails) when they are about at 6-5mm.
Take the ends down to 2mm with a nice transition up. Make sure you have a sacrificial piece of wood in front of them, as well as hot glue or double sided tape.
Its not the silver bullet, but this worked for me.
Take the ends down to 2mm with a nice transition up. Make sure you have a sacrificial piece of wood in front of them, as well as hot glue or double sided tape.
Its not the silver bullet, but this worked for me.
Last edited by threeninethree on Wed Dec 26, 2012 5:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
~ Matt
I think there are some mistakes or learning experiences that are unavoidable with any amount of reading and the sidewalls seem to be one of them.
The trick for me was permanent 3m concrete and subfloor carpet tape. I can take a core down as thin as i want. Problem is not destroying the core getting that Permanent tape off.
Wish i had a better solution. I know some planer crib with just grip tape and UHMW sidewalls. Maybe with a better planer crib set up.
Lookin good keep eating that elephant.
The trick for me was permanent 3m concrete and subfloor carpet tape. I can take a core down as thin as i want. Problem is not destroying the core getting that Permanent tape off.
Wish i had a better solution. I know some planer crib with just grip tape and UHMW sidewalls. Maybe with a better planer crib set up.
Lookin good keep eating that elephant.
Newest update:
I've powered throught!!!
I came up with a new lift for the top mild. I modified Kams idea using a bottle jack:
then put lar bolts in the mold to attach it.
now on to the show.
This is the only photo I have of the layup. I was very unsure how long it was going to take me to layup two skis at one time. (21mins now I know)
I used 6" sign tape for the bottom of the skis. I then taped that down to the aluminum casset. I had 5 layers of mold release on it.
My sexy beast in all her glory:
I had really good compression in the tips and tails:
I wasn't wild about the wrinkles between the skis... I was totally freeked out actually!
Cut them out! awwwwwyeahhhh
First thought: holy F'n sweetness!
second thought: hows the flex? softer than I'd like. I better make another thincker pair, tomorrow... ;-)
I tried cutting them out with the band saw. Ummm no... that didn't work very well the blade heated up to much with the sidewalls. so I went with a jig saw. it was much easier. then I sanded the sides down to the edge with a belt sander (36 grit).
Now I have to profile the side walls. Looks like my options are:
1.) 22 degree with bearing on the bottom of the bit
2.) 14 degree dove tail bit with bearing
3.) Trim bit with wedge on the bottom or router (I'm not sure about this one)
anyone have a go to?
I've powered throught!!!
I came up with a new lift for the top mild. I modified Kams idea using a bottle jack:
then put lar bolts in the mold to attach it.
now on to the show.
This is the only photo I have of the layup. I was very unsure how long it was going to take me to layup two skis at one time. (21mins now I know)
I used 6" sign tape for the bottom of the skis. I then taped that down to the aluminum casset. I had 5 layers of mold release on it.
My sexy beast in all her glory:
I had really good compression in the tips and tails:
I wasn't wild about the wrinkles between the skis... I was totally freeked out actually!
Cut them out! awwwwwyeahhhh
First thought: holy F'n sweetness!
second thought: hows the flex? softer than I'd like. I better make another thincker pair, tomorrow... ;-)
I tried cutting them out with the band saw. Ummm no... that didn't work very well the blade heated up to much with the sidewalls. so I went with a jig saw. it was much easier. then I sanded the sides down to the edge with a belt sander (36 grit).
Now I have to profile the side walls. Looks like my options are:
1.) 22 degree with bearing on the bottom of the bit
2.) 14 degree dove tail bit with bearing
3.) Trim bit with wedge on the bottom or router (I'm not sure about this one)
anyone have a go to?
Sweet graphics.
I bevel my sidewalls using a 22.5 degree router bit as shown here:
The router is mounted on an cantilevered aluminum plate. The ski is supported on a sheet of MDF that is raised in the middle using a shim to compensate for the camber. As the ski is pushed forward, the bearing follows along the ski edge. I leave about 6mm of vertical sidewall above the ski base.
Here is another pair of skis having hardwood sidewalls:
The sides are stained using Minwax Ebony colored wood finish. During the ski tuning operation, the edging operation removes material from the metal edge and sidewall, exposing the hardwood. This is a nice visual effect.
Cheers,
-S
I bevel my sidewalls using a 22.5 degree router bit as shown here:
The router is mounted on an cantilevered aluminum plate. The ski is supported on a sheet of MDF that is raised in the middle using a shim to compensate for the camber. As the ski is pushed forward, the bearing follows along the ski edge. I leave about 6mm of vertical sidewall above the ski base.
Here is another pair of skis having hardwood sidewalls:
The sides are stained using Minwax Ebony colored wood finish. During the ski tuning operation, the edging operation removes material from the metal edge and sidewall, exposing the hardwood. This is a nice visual effect.
Cheers,
-S
When using 13mm sidewall material I use a 15 deg bevel on a tilt base trim router. I calculate that this gives me 4mm on the upper edge of he sidewall.
I've thought about doing kind of a hip roof kind of profile with something like 5 -7 deg directly above the edge about and then angling the upper edge back a bit more to like 20 deg.
I was thinking this would reduce some of the top sheet wear and chipping as well as decreasing weight some.
This would probably only work for the central 1/3 of the ski and then it would likely be too thin to work up in the tip and tail sections. With would very likely look similar to Shifs sidewalls.
I've thought about doing kind of a hip roof kind of profile with something like 5 -7 deg directly above the edge about and then angling the upper edge back a bit more to like 20 deg.
I was thinking this would reduce some of the top sheet wear and chipping as well as decreasing weight some.
This would probably only work for the central 1/3 of the ski and then it would likely be too thin to work up in the tip and tail sections. With would very likely look similar to Shifs sidewalls.
Fighting gravity on a daily basis
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
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- Posts: 2337
- Joined: Tue Apr 07, 2009 3:26 pm
- Location: Western Mass, USA
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I use either a 15 or 20 degree wedge on the base of my router held in place w/ double stick tape. I use a top bearing straight bit. Some day I'd like to setup a router table and do it that way.... setup an angled sled, clamp the ski to the sled and run it by a top mounted bearing bit.
edit; How could I forget... The skis look awesome! More pics when they are finished and tested please.
edit; How could I forget... The skis look awesome! More pics when they are finished and tested please.
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- Posts: 2204
- Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 8:25 pm
- Location: Kenmore, Wa USA
I see someone didn't do a very good job lining up their graphics on the tails in the layup... tsk tsk (I've done that plenty of times)
Excellent work dude, they look amazing. Love the graphics (and I'm very jealous of your press!)
Get out and ski on those things.
I got your PM. It's really hard to get a gut feel for stiffness since I use a very different core material (bamboo). I say just go for it with thicker cores and CF and see how it turns out. If it's too stiff, then you have two good baselines - one soft, one stiff - to scale all of your future skis.
Excellent work dude, they look amazing. Love the graphics (and I'm very jealous of your press!)
Get out and ski on those things.
I got your PM. It's really hard to get a gut feel for stiffness since I use a very different core material (bamboo). I say just go for it with thicker cores and CF and see how it turns out. If it's too stiff, then you have two good baselines - one soft, one stiff - to scale all of your future skis.