No bonding on the edge area
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No bonding on the edge area
Hi there,
already did two boards with transparent base and have faced strange problem. In the place where edge is located is no bonding with fiberglass. Seems like air holds there. Have no idea what is it.
May be I had same problems with colored base material, but I could not see it.
Prior to attaching edge to the base we have sanded it to eliminate presence of any rust or enamel.
May be rubber foil did not attach to the base or bubbles spread under the pressure and stuck in that place. May be because we rub the rubber foil with white spirit prior to layup.
The last thing I think about is that we have used UV printing (with primer as it was recommended) and may be under the press pressure and temperature inks dissolves in the place of edges since there is applied more force due to the presence of edge and rubber.
already did two boards with transparent base and have faced strange problem. In the place where edge is located is no bonding with fiberglass. Seems like air holds there. Have no idea what is it.
May be I had same problems with colored base material, but I could not see it.
Prior to attaching edge to the base we have sanded it to eliminate presence of any rust or enamel.
May be rubber foil did not attach to the base or bubbles spread under the pressure and stuck in that place. May be because we rub the rubber foil with white spirit prior to layup.
The last thing I think about is that we have used UV printing (with primer as it was recommended) and may be under the press pressure and temperature inks dissolves in the place of edges since there is applied more force due to the presence of edge and rubber.
Don't put anything on the VDS. By "white spirits" do you mean
Mineral spirits? I would not put anything on the VDS. Keep it clean handle it with gloves and put it in the lay up as is.
Also don't sand off the primer on the edge. If it shows some light rust you can sand that lightly but don't sand it down to shiny metal. The primer is there for a reason, improved bonding.
How are you attaching your edges to your base material?
If using CA glue, how much and are you gluing every edge tine? If so do not do this, glue only every 3 or 4th tine.
Mineral spirits? I would not put anything on the VDS. Keep it clean handle it with gloves and put it in the lay up as is.
Also don't sand off the primer on the edge. If it shows some light rust you can sand that lightly but don't sand it down to shiny metal. The primer is there for a reason, improved bonding.
How are you attaching your edges to your base material?
If using CA glue, how much and are you gluing every edge tine? If so do not do this, glue only every 3 or 4th tine.
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When we did the first board we didn't pay too much attention to the epoxy in between edge teeth and VDS rubber. Just spread the epoxy uniformly, then soaked strips of VDS rubber in remaining epoxy and put them into the place.pmg wrote:Did you put epoxy in between the edges and the vds? Looks to me as if there never was some...
Next time we took brush and roller to be sure that epoxy penetrated everywhere but the problem remained.
Right now we do next board.
Last edited by motoman on Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regarding to "white spirit" - yes, it is mineral spirit.vinman wrote:Don't put anything on the VDS. By "white spirits" do you mean
Mineral spirits? I would not put anything on the VDS. Keep it clean handle it with gloves and put it in the lay up as is.
Also don't sand off the primer on the edge. If it shows some light rust you can sand that lightly but don't sand it down to shiny metal. The primer is there for a reason, improved bonding.
How are you attaching your edges to your base material?
If using CA glue, how much and are you gluing every edge tine? If so do not do this, glue only every 3 or 4th tine.
We have been using it to clean topsheet and VDS rubber, until now))
As for the edges.
First time we didn't sand edges, but after the failure we thought that it it could be a reason and have sanded it to shine.
Now I know that primer plays a role here.
Concerning the glue.
We use superglue and put a drop of it each 6-7 teeth in straight areas and each 2-3 teeth in the tip and tail.
We tried to do the best, like it was written in "how to" section ans some topics and were shown on some videos.
This time we won't use mineral spirit and won't oversand edges. In one hour we will see the result.
Very hope that your advice will help.
- MontuckyMadman
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We use pneumatic press and work under 60 psi (4 atm or bar).MontuckyMadman wrote:Vacuum? = Not enough pressure. Pnematic = to kuch and too slow a ure no resin. Did you rabbet the core for edge tine?
Press reaches working pressure during half a minute. Actually I never pinpoint it.
By the rabbet you mean trench for edge in the core, yes?
We don't do the trench. I thought that it is not necessary.
Actually we did third trial and the result is the same.
I'm upset and disappointed.
Last edited by motoman on Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:24 am, edited 1 time in total.
-0.65 Bar is not a lot.heke wrote:Do you mean that there is not enoúght space for fibres between core and edge? This came to my mind but as novice I don't know?MontuckyMadman wrote: Did you rabbet the core for edge tine?
What is enought pressure? I could get -0.65 bar?
My system is running at -0.9, so that is quite a lot higher.
Im not an expert but I would suggest, try the rabbet, so there is not too much preasure on the edge.
Also in your layup, take the time to make sure there is a generous amount of epoxy filling the teeth areas of your edge.
I am nobody. Nobody's perfect, so I must be perfect.
Akiwi wrote:The one thing that we haven't try yet is rabbet. On most videos I haven't seen that people make rabbet.heke wrote:Also in your layup, take the time to make sure there is a generous amount of epoxy filling the teeth areas of your edge.MontuckyMadman wrote: Did you rabbet the core for edge tine?
As for filling teeth, now we are overconcentrated on that areas. So the reason of amount of epoxy is excluded.
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