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Heating Edges for Bending

 
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falls



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 1426
Location: Wangaratta, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:40 pm    Post subject: Heating Edges for Bending Reply with quote

Hello everyone
From my experience with 3/4 wrap when the edge is being forced into a tighter tip/tail curve the tendency of the edge to spring back to flat leads to very minor delamination with use.
Iggyskier from ON3P recently posted about detempering the ends of the edges to get better pressing into the mold shape and better fit to the curves of the ski shape. The moment ski videos also show the layup guys being able to very easily bend the ends of the edged bases up to match the prebent casettes.
I have heated some edge material with a propane torch until red hot and it is indeed a lot easier to bend. It lead to some discolouration of the edge material and I am wondering what peoples' experience is with edge preparation and bonding after heating. Is just cleaning with MEK/acetone/alcohol after heating and bending all that is needed or are people sandblasting? Is there any science to heating the edges (I know there is a lot with heating and cooling metal, but I mean more for practical purposes)
Thanks
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Akiwi



Joined: 15 Jan 2015
Posts: 355
Location: Olching (Near Munich) Germany

PostPosted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, that interests me too. I haven't tried it as I thought the edge material will be much softer, and of course easier to bend, but also easier to ding and wouldn't stay sharp as well. (Of course not important on the tips / tails).
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SHIF



Joined: 14 Jul 2007
Posts: 262
Location: Wasatch Mountains

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I anneal steel edges before trying to make tight bends for doing a full-wrap. After marking them with a Sharpie so I know exactly where to start the process, I lay them out on fire bricks and use MAPP gas to get them glowing bright orange. MAPP gas is significantly hotter than propane so the job goes much quicker. Then after air cooling I use a rotary wire brush in a drill motor to scrub off all the soot. I made a simple fixture to hold the edges straight and keep them from moving. Final step is a thorough cleaning, end to end, using denatured alcohol.

My most recent two builds (I will post images to my journal soon) are not full-wrap so annealing was not necessary. It’s easy enough to cold-bend them if you start with a long enough piece to grab onto. Make a simple fixture from a couple large bolts and a bench vice. Saw a slot in one bolt to clear the edge tabs. Lever against the other bolt as you bend away.

Cheers,
-S
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vinman



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 1293
Location: The tin foil isle

PostPosted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anneal, wire brush, clean with solvent of choice that doesn't leave residue.
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skidesmond



Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 2277
Location: Western Mass, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do 3/4 wrap too. I don't heat the edge to bend it into place. I hand bend using modified pliers and will slightly over bend so when it springs back it fits the shape of the tip/tail. The edge should fit the shape of the base as close as possible tip to tail.

Once I tack on the edge I will pre-bend the tip and tail to give it a slight curve upward. The pre-bending should be slight, maybe 1/2 or 1/4 of the actual tip radius. My cassette also has a pre-bend in the tip area.
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falls



Joined: 27 Oct 2009
Posts: 1426
Location: Wangaratta, Australia

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for all the tips.
My slight delams are downwards not outwards. Its fine in a rocker tip/tail as the curve is large radius, but is more pronounced in a normal tip/tail where the radius is tight.
I have done a heated bend around the tip of my next pair to try a full wrap.
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vinman



Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 1293
Location: The tin foil isle

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also try to leave a full edge tang at the end of the piece in the tips nd make sure to ti the edge far enough beyond the area where I thin it would get stress from bending while in use.
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OAC



Joined: 23 Jul 2009
Posts: 941
Location: Sweden

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anneal then using the "Edge brush 3000". No solvent on my material before layup! My de-lams (there has been a few I have to admit..) has never been on the edge/base side.

When using vacuum, anneal and pre bending is a good rule of thumb. I think sammer agree. :-)




Edge brush 3000
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amidnightproject



Joined: 04 Nov 2009
Posts: 378
Location: Portland Area, Maine

PostPosted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a sandblasting cabinet.

Picked it up on craigslist for $100. Blast media included. I drilled a couple holes on either side so that I could pass the edges into the cabinet and bam. Super clean edges after the anealing process.
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pmg



Joined: 01 Dec 2012
Posts: 433
Location: Sonthofen

PostPosted: Sun May 01, 2016 9:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also thought about annealing the edges and tried it one time. After that, I worked a bit on my nipple plier skills, and found that pre-bending both horizontally and vertically ain't that hard after all, just takes patience. So now I pre-bend the edges to the final ski shape, also makes layup easier.

Cheers
Philipp
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kit



Joined: 07 Aug 2015
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon May 02, 2016 12:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Anneal, wire brush, clean with solvent of choice that doesn't leave residue." - x2.

I bend them to the bases, laid up flat with superglue every third tang, then use a tip bender rig to shape tip and tail to profile before press. No delams.

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gav wa



Joined: 18 Feb 2014
Posts: 325
Location: Perth

PostPosted: Tue May 03, 2016 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heating over about 300°c will permanently effect the hardness of the edge, your hard edge is now tempered, heat it to about 730°c and let it cool at room temp and you have normalized your edges and they have lost all their heat treatment and are now plain carbon steel.
I don't heat mine, I do full wrap even on swallowtail boards, but if you do feel the need try to keep the heat away from the contact points.
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