Ski Builders Forum

Spot on G-man!

@chrismp Thanks for the offer! I will have a thought. I came across a manufacturer her in S. and he was willing to produce the tips and tails (in polyu.) for the same cost as the sheet. Could be something... I'm thinking...

@Brazen, 2mm alu. Pre bending? My "Vaccu-master-3000" can't bend that.

Yeah, I was going to try it, but it sounds like maybe G-man already threw himself down this well? I still might try it. I would definitely prebend them OAC )

No, I've never actually tried using aluminum in a ski. I've known it wouldn't help with damping, and I get the stiffness I want just from manipulating the thickness of the core material. Any benefit that metal might provide in terms of stiffness, is negatively offset by it's potential bonding problems and it's inability to effectively dissipate vibration energy. Just as an additional note, there are certain metals that are quite effective at vibration damping (lead, copper, manganese), but the obvious downsides of these materials (weight, cost) make them poor choices for skis or snowboards. The standard grades of aluminum that are available at general metals suppliers or home stores are not, to my knowledge, going to provide any benefit in terms of damping. If there are materials engineers out there who disagree (or agree), I'd certainly like to have their input on this topic, because, as always, I could be totally wrong.

Hmmm... just watch... next year, some big ski or snowboard company is going to come out with skis or boards that have a 'micro-film of Mg-Cu for un-matched damping while still maintaining awesome pop and snap'. Gawd, I'm growing very weary of hearing about 'awesome pop and snap'. Will someone please come up with a new catch phrase.

G-man

Ha... I just saw skidesmonds's new performance term in the 'Apr'es ski building' section... 'boingy-boingy'. Cool... I like it. As a moderator of this forum (by reason that no one has stepped in to take my place), I hereby declared it illegal to use the phrase 'pop and snap', and thereby require that whenever a forum member desires to describe a new ride's lively nature, that said nature be described only in terms of it's relative boingy-boingy-ness.

G-man

So pricing actually seems relatively reasonable assuming VDS would no longer need to be used in the tip/tails. .08” x 48” x 144” sheets 95A Ether Natural- $350.00 each so assuming 1 square foot per pair of skis it would be about $7.30/pair plus shipping. I would also look a lot cleaner when using clear topsheets/basees not having a block of VDS at the ends. This is of course assuming it can be a substitute for VDS.
Searching resins I found polytek.com and am getting a sample ($52 for 6lbs) or room temp cure (overnight) 90 shore A hardness. They are not sure about the bonding so I can post an update when I get it and try things out. They don't seem to think the cold temp will be a problem more he was just unsure about bonding with the other composites.
Thanks for the input Chris. The resin will add another step but will be nice to have a seamless bumper and if it is possible to avoid dealing with UHMW sidewalls and possbily VDS. This may be a bit optimistic at the moment but I'll update how tests go in the upcoming weeks.

Imo you will still need vds. Its a sheer layer. You have two very hard things you will be bonding. The vds acts like a buffer here.

I finally heard back from http://www.stevensurethane.com/filmsheet.html
They would like to know the durometer we are looking for. Since I have never used real 2mm tip file ( I used 2 layers of p-tex as fill, is that close enough?) I've seen durometer numbers of 80-100 in this thread. Is that close enough?

Here's a slight problem though, min order is 1000lbs for most of there films and 2000lbs for color and/or specialty. Price range from $5.50 to $8.00 a lb.

That's just a bit more than I want to store in my basement...... and that's probably enough material for all the builders east of the Mississippi for a few years.

I could always tell my daughter to take a year off from college and use that money to buy a roll

Perhaps they can recommend a retail business for their product. But I'm getting the sense they make "stuff" to your specs, vs create "stuff" for general purpose use.

So, if the durometer numbers above are close enough I'll see if they are willing to spare a few minutes during lunch time, or whatever, so I can see the product and show them what we're using today.

MontuckyMadman wrote:Imo you will still need vds. Its a sheer layer. You have two very hard things you will be bonding. The vds acts like a buffer here.

even 100A isn't that hard...

Thanks for the input Montucky. Like I said it might be a bit optimistic to think it but at least I hope to eliminate the VDS on top of the core (tip/tail and edges). It will take some time to get some results as I will be doing some traveling but I'll post some results.