miserable failure

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plywood
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miserable failure

Post by plywood »

here`s the thing. i got abs sidewalls from a friend and thought "hey, let`s try this out! i`ve never been a fan of plastic due to bonding, but it can`t be this bad, right?!"
and so i did...just to find my initial hate of plastic confirmed ;) after 2 days of glueing cores and sidewalls the whole shit got eaten uf by the router profiling.
so all in all an experiment to forget quickly and not worth sharing. BUT! there`s still something worth sharing.

a few weeks ago i visited the stoeckli ski factory over here. i think i don`t have to explan what stoeckli is - it`s the only large swiss ski factory. their factory tour was pretty intense and i was surprised by how much they showed. i was able to see every step from profiling the woodcores to the layup of one of their skis. the only thing kept secret was the profile of the core and the weight of the glass they`re using.

the interesting part was how they did their cores. they get core halfes from a supplier. those halves are straight and already have sidewalls on on one side. so they basicalli look like this:
sidewalls (about 5-8mm thick for their race skis)
veneer (about 7 or 8 layers of veneer, each stripe about 3mm thick, so the whole wooden par is about 25mm wide)
foam (don`t know anything about this foam, but i guess it`s some PU foam from isosport...)
so i hope you got how thos core halves are built. then they take those halfes and put them, sidewalls facing each others, into a milling machine that cuts away some of the foam. so basically it cuts a radius into the foam so that the core halves are wider in tip and tail and narrower in the middle. then they take the core halves and flip them so that the foam parts are facing each others. now the middle of the cores/the area under the binding has to be pressed together and gets fixed with some bostitchs. by this the middle gets pulled together and the sidewalls with the veneers follow the radius of the skis.
afterwards the whole core gets profiled. (i think it was like this. may also be that the core halves get profiled before bostitching together, but doesn`t matter anyway).

as i never saw a construction like this on this forum i thought i might share what i saw. it seemed a pretty fast ans efficient way of doing cores with the advantage of having wood stripes right over the edges, following the radius of the edges. this may result in a better transition of power along the edges.

so for my messed up sidewall skis i wanted to do something similar. here are some pics:

Image

here`s the whole core. i adopted the stoeckli way of doing cores a little to my needs. i split up the core into 3 areas: 2 sidewalls of about 30mm width and a middle part. i think you would have a hard time bending wood wider than 30mm into the radius, that`s why i did it like this. so i only profiled the middle part and then glued on the wood with the sidewalls so that those outer stripes follow the radius too. here`s a closeup:

Image

the red lines mark the areas where the middle part stopped and the sidewalls began. i think you had to do a similar "3-part-core-approach" if you wanted to do full woodcores. you only can do the "2-halves-approach" as stoeckli does it if you`re using some foam in the middle. everything else will be too stiff to get bent into shape.

i hope you got how it worked, else i`ll have to draw some drawings to further explain it ;)
plywood freeride industries - go ply, ride wood!
knightsofnii
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Post by knightsofnii »

pretty cool, my cores were built similarly,

started with a vertical laminated block, then cut the sidecut into it, then added another strip of birch or poplar, and a strip of uhmw, to the curve.

then sliced the whole thing in half, bookmatched it, then profiled.
So I have cores with "double wide walls" ;).
Doug
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threeninethree
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Post by threeninethree »

Something to this effect?

Image
~ Matt
plywood
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Post by plywood »

jep, that`s what i did.
now stoeckli leaves away the "inner core milled to shape" and mills the "outer cores" to shape. their cores stop right where the sidewalls end, so they don`t have any wood in tip and tail as on your picture. there would be a STRAIGHT!!!! cut (no V-shape or so, simply a straight rectangular cut) and then they put some rubberish, about 2mm thick tip and tail "spacers" in.
plywood freeride industries - go ply, ride wood!
skidesmond
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miserable failure

Post by skidesmond »

New to the forum. I've been following the last couple of months picking up ideas and hoping to avoid mistakes learned by others.... I've been skiing for many years and doing woodworking for a long time and building skis is a great way to combine the 2 hobbies.

So, anyway, that's interesting how Stoeckli makes their cores. I'll be making my first set of skis over the next couple of months, hopefully.

I'm also a ski instructor at a small local ski area (Blandford Ski Area). They are having their 75th anniverary next season as the oldest continuous operating ski club in North America ( I guess it's true ). So I thought I'd build a pair of skis for them in honor of their 75 yrs of operation. Still debating in my mind if the skis will be a modern looking wood ski, like ones on lightningboards or more modern construction w/ a wood veneer topsheet.

Well I have a long way to go before I worry too much about the top sheet.

This is a great site! Lots of great info and ideas!! I'll be posting pics when the time comes.
knightsofnii
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Post by knightsofnii »

i'd suggest getting a few pair under your belt before building for someone else, but it sounds like a very noble idea :)
Doug
skidesmond
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miserable failure

Post by skidesmond »

Absolutely. I don't expect the first set of skis (or second, third...) to come out perfect. It's really intended to be more commemorative in nature, but I'm working towards something that's skiable. If all else fails they'll look good over the fire place :)

I have 2 boards cut out, 174cm (116/76/102) and 168cm (118/76/104). I did a rough cut of the shape first w/ a jigsaw. Using the bold line of the pattern as a guide I tacked a strip of 1 inch MDF along the bold line and then used a trim router bit to make a clean cut to finalize the patttern. Around the tip/tail I used the jigsaw carefully and sanded as needed.

This week I hope to do some testing creating cores using a planer as described in some of the other topics. I tried using the rail profiler system. While it worked, it does take a long time and had difficulty getting a smooth transition from the tip area where it was 2.5 mm going toward the center of the core. I'll see how the planer method works. Sounds like it's faster.
dbtahoe
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Post by dbtahoe »

Just goes to show that there are no new ideas. I thunk about this a while ago and I have been waiting to try something similar but with cork for its dampening qualities.

The difference being that my plan is to have the wood rails wider so that they come together under the foot leaving wedges of cork at the tip and tail.
doughboyshredder
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Post by doughboyshredder »

^^^ that's a good idea
knightsofnii
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Post by knightsofnii »

i was also thinking about cork, as either strips in the core, or some other way to use as dampening
Doug
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