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333skis - Guy making skis out of a trailer
Posted: Tue May 19, 2009 10:39 pm
by iggyskier
Hopefully the right spot...
anyway, figured a few people would find this interesting. Guy making skis out of a pimped out trailer in cali.
Anyway, pretty unique approach to ski building for sure.
http://333skis.com/
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 8:15 am
by KevyWevy
wow. this is really interesting!
his sidecut jig is a sweet simple idea as well!
and cap construction...
edges on the tail...
"Anchoring the edge at tip and tail. This method allows for a faster prep/build time. I think it is superior for edge retention on impact hits to tip. "
i guess instead of posting the rest of the pictures i find interesting i'll just post a link to "how they're built"
http://333skis.com/how-333-skis-are-built.php
i see nothing about a press and seeing how the skis are cap construction, he must be vacuum bagging.
incredibly interesting though... i really like the idea of the sidecut jig!
Posted: Wed May 20, 2009 12:41 pm
by Grizzly Adams
has a real impressive resume too...
"I built the Scotty Bob factory in Silverton, the Auto Win factory in China, trained Pete Wagner from Telluride, built the Yama factory in Northridge, set up the original crew of 5150 Snowboards, Jason Kanes, did the original prototype development for Arbor Snowboards, Chris. Back in the day, many of Kemper Snowboards prototypes. Designed the Yama Deep V Tool, Yama DCB and QCB. Built the factory that Coda Boards are built in. Started the crew of Beau Woods, Paul Sethi, the largest stateside wood core manufacturer before the industry went to China. Built Famly Snowboards, Trailer Trash Snowboards, Freeload in Canada, and a host of other bitchen small companies on the West Coast."
Posted: Thu May 21, 2009 12:14 pm
by chrismp
i think his method of profiling the cores with a modified bandsaw is pretty interesting.
i wonder how accurate that method is.
Posted: Mon May 25, 2009 7:34 pm
by Juanbendedknee
This makes me want to try the horizontal laminate method- It might just be the feel I am looking for in my next pair of pow skis. Anyone have an Idea about core sizing with this method?
J
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 7:54 am
by MontuckyMadman
Seems i'm a little stupid. vacuum is whats me thinks.
I still think the plywood will loose its camber/rocker faster and pop that we want to last a long time but this guy has been building for along time.
You think more manufacturers would be building with ply if it works so well. maybe they are. Haven't cut up a new pair of gots in a while or any of the other major makers skis.
I bet you can tell the difference between ply the same with wood and metal and foam. they all feel it bit different its what you like.
Good info in here but he posts after drinking/working allot.
case you missed it...
http://tetongravity.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160115
Plywood you want to chime in? Oh wait you are building vert lam like all of us aren't you?
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 8:38 am
by iggyskier
MontuckyMadman wrote:
Good info in here but he posts after drinking/working allot.
haha for real. I need to sometimes read the posts 2-3 times to get the whole thing.
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 9:58 am
by MontuckyMadman
well, i still can't get it all. There's good stuff but slightly cryptic.
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 12:03 pm
by KevyWevy
im still a little lost...
does anybody have any pictures of how bladder conformation works?
"Two build tables, one atmosphere, the sun, some good material, build on customer service, one axle one hope, I say, "bust it down.""
- he's talking about atmosphere, so is he bagging as well?
and how does his bandsaw set-up work? is it pretty much just like using a planer jig, but with the modified bandsaw instead. in the pictures i don't see any sort of crib/jig.
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 3:35 pm
by doughboyshredder
I just wanted to point out that he actually hasn't said anything about his current press other than to refer to them as press stacks, and to say that he presses the ski with 4800lbs of force.
That aint shit. Maybe 10psi or so on the laminate, so I am expecting vacuum bag.
The reference to bladder deformation, was about earlier press building.
These skis aren't perfect, but that doesn't mean they won't be a good ski, and if he is able to sell them for 333.00 and support himself as a ski bum, then that's dded rad if you ask me.
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 4:47 pm
by MontuckyMadman
ahhh.. all his cryptic linguo got me confused.
damn him. I'm going to mammoth!!
Posted: Tue May 26, 2009 11:27 pm
by plywood
I hear your call, Mmadman!
plywood? i checked his site too but somehow i missed the part about plywood... so what`s the question?
you`re right, i switched to vertical lamination but did...3 pairs with horizontal lamination. but i did use veneer instead of plywood.
hard to say if plywood keeps the camber. this can`t be answered in general, it depends on how you use it.
if you use several sheets of 1 or 2mm plywood and laminate those sheets horizontally in a cambered mold i promise you the skis will NEVER EVER lose any camber - as the core will already be cambered. it`s not like on a vertically laminated core where the core is "flat" and gets forced into camber by the fibreglas, because on vertical the core always wants to go back to being straight.
kchchch what an ambiguous sentence!
if the core gets laminated "flat" i can`t see any advantage of it....if he doesn`t laminate at all and just cuts massive sheets of plywood i can`t find any advantage neither...
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 9:28 pm
by Dr. Delam
I think the advantages that he is striving for are minimal cost and simplicity. His core cost is $4 each and there is no labor on lamination since it is already done.
I think I have to try at least one pair with some of this birch laminate. They have it at the local Home Depot for $37 for a 4X 8 X 1/2 sheet.
Posted: Wed May 27, 2009 10:55 pm
by plywood
but be careful with plywood. if the several plys/sheets of the plywood are too thick it won`t work. at least that`s what i`ve experience on my skateboards. there is a border at maybe 2mm thickness of a sheet.
if the single sheets of the plywood are thicker than 2mm it`s more likely the plywood will break if profiled and loaded with a big load. this is due to the sheets running crosswise to the skis. the crack will start in such a crosswise sheet. hard to explain, but hopefully you get the point
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 4:09 pm
by MontuckyMadman
333 from http://forums.alpinezone.com/54186-333-skis-4.html wrote:A traditional factory is based on Press capacity. You build the shop around how quickly your press cycle times are, and how many presses you have. A typical cycle time per press is apx. 27 minutes including resin cure at 170 deg, load and unloading of press and clean time. About 2 sets an hour. then you build the material prep side according to the feed rates to keep your builders on time. Then you build the processing side, trim cut, side and base grind, finish and package. A two press shop for cap or sidewall construction can range from $18,000 to $38,000 to set up with used equipement (grinders, band saws, tool boxes) and up to $80,000 for new. Then the time to build it, train staff, the learning curve, the rent, comp, and materials.
My trailer cost $800 to build from scrap and reclaimed material. The rest of the shop comes in under $4500. My Press stacks which are still proprietary are within these costs. I just hope I don't crash the damned thing at 55 mph or in the snow. I was thinking of offering complete shops and training with the technology developed at 333 skis. Level the playing field with China.