Geoff's Build

Document your personal work here. Show photos, movies, and share your secrets.

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Mongo
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:24 am
Location: Wedell Skis Lab

Geoff's Build

Post by Mongo »

I just finished my press, first two molds, and core profiler. My materials are en route right now, so pretty soon I will have a finished product to share also. The mens mold is for a true 190 with dimensions of 125-100-115, and the womens is a 165 of the same width. The camber for my molds were built in at 15mm as I figure as I am not using heat yet, they will relax a little. I am 6'6", so I built the press 8' long so I could make some skis over 200cm. The wood for the core is going to be a white ash/aspen blend, and I logged the white ash myself at my farm and had it cut at the local sawmill so the cost hit won't be so bad. I am a mechanical engineering major at the University of Wisconsin, so hopefully they will let me use this as my senior design project for this upcoming year. Click on the thumbnail to view the few pics here, and the rest can be seen at:

http://community.webshots.com/myphotos? ... ity=cpbbuy

Pressure testing the frame. Everything stayed good as I ran it up to 65 psi.
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Initial mold comparison against my Explosiv. I lengthened it out a little since this pic.
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I initially pressure tested the hose to 70 psi. No leaks anywhere. I used non-hardening flexible formagasket (no 2B-the black gooey stuff) to seal all my fittings and the hose is tight as a drum.
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Here is the layup before inflating. I think the paint turned out really well for being done in my dungeon of a college basement and cutting all the steel on my beer pong table.
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Any coments or questions, please shoot them at me. I can't thank this website and forum enough for all of the awesome information that is presented. --Geoff
MLReed05
Posts: 82
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 5:12 pm
Location: Western MA

Post by MLReed05 »

Looks like a nice setup...Very cool you logged the wood yourself
Mongo
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:24 am
Location: Wedell Skis Lab

Post by Mongo »

Finally got everything taken care of after a crazy month of job interviewing and school. First pair being pressed tonight with an aspen with 3 white ash stringers core. Also made enough core blanks for 9 pair with an all aspen core and aspen with two white ash boards cores. Pics to follow soon. --Geoff
Mongo
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:24 am
Location: Wedell Skis Lab

Post by Mongo »

I pressed my first pair about a month ago, and tweaked different things for each ski. They both have the same core and sidecut profile, but I wanted to try a couple different things in the layup. They are a true 190cm ski with dimensions 128-103-118, a camber of 8mm, and the core is an array of 3/4" white ash and aspen. There is 3 strips of white ash, and 4 aspen with white ash running down the middle followed by aspen on either side, then white ash, then aspen. I was trying to imitate the stiffness of the Volkl Explosiv, just a little fatter. The rest of the materials were pretty standard-22 oz. fiberglass, VDS rubber, durasurf base and topsheet, and ash sidewalls.

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The first ski I pressed, (on the left), had the core extend up into the tip and tail and then the tipspacer was cut out around it. This seems to be fine for the functionality, but I was using 1/8" ABS for the tipspacer and it turned out fairly difficult to try to sand down the ABS to match the tip and tail angle created from profiling with a planer. Subsequently, the mate where the ABS and core meet is slightly visible. I also tried to edge wrap the tip, but the pointy tip proved fairly difficult to work with. I was very pleased with the alignment of the ski as the core stayed perfectly in place. I liked that I left the graphics section without the red flannel to verify this. The die cut black rhino under the fiberglass and topsheet as well as the WEDELL graphic came out very clear.

The second ski I made, (Right), used the method of having squared off edges on the tip and tial section of the core blank, and then the whole tip and tail section is pre attached ABS. This seems to be what Kingswood does, and to model that I heated the ABS and formed it to the tip and tail sections of the mold to pre-form it.This created a very professional looking transition between the core and tipspacer. I also did away with trying to wrap that tight curve around the tip, and stopped the edges near the tip and tail like my Volkl Explosiv's.

Both skis had the bases held to the mold by double sided tape, and the excess material of the sidewalls was nailed to the mold after alignment. One thing I did not do that I wish I had is using the masonite board I bought as a top pressing layer. The firehose did imprint a little on the clear p-tex topsheet, so I need to use something smooth in between next time. I also thought the 1/8" ABS for tip/tail spacers was too thick, so I have since gotten 1/16".

In my measurement systems class, I am testing various deflection values, stress conditions, and vibration damping properties of my first skin against my Explosiv. We have a bunch of strain gages on both skis and are spending the last 3 weeks of class on this final project. I'll post anything I learn here once I am done, but for now here are some deflection pics. The first is a tip deflection test with 4.77kg on the tip, and the roller back 100cm from the weight. The second is with 22.7kg applied at CC.
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I currently have a ski made from an all aspen core with white ash sidewalls in my press, so pictures of that will follow soon. --Geoff
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zachjowi
Posts: 110
Joined: Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:41 am
Location: WI

Post by zachjowi »

REI is a great store in mad town :D

nice skis
iggyskier
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Post by iggyskier »

Nice dimensions and skis! They look nice.
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mattman
Posts: 265
Joined: Mon Jan 02, 2006 10:22 am
Location: NH
Contact:

Post by mattman »

very nice skis...came out clean and your process is very well recorded. When you made your second bases, your edges stopped before the tips, correct? If so, how did you shape the base, did it have a lip coming out around the tip to match where the edge ended? If not it seems that the edge would snag and tear out in use. If there is extra material at the tip, how did you cut it that way?

I am considering partial edges on my skis since our bases keep torquing when I apply full edge wrap...but I am not sure how to shape the base accordingly.
Mongo
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:24 am
Location: Wedell Skis Lab

Post by Mongo »

mattman wrote:very nice skis...came out clean and your process is very well recorded. When you made your second bases, your edges stopped before the tips, correct? If so, how did you shape the base, did it have a lip coming out around the tip to match where the edge ended? If not it seems that the edge would snag and tear out in use. If there is extra material at the tip, how did you cut it that way?

I am considering partial edges on my skis since our bases keep torquing when I apply full edge wrap...but I am not sure how to shape the base accordingly.
For the edges to stop up in the tips I made a second template to cut away the base material where the edge would be occupying. The process was as follows. 1. Take the overall base template and clamp it to the two p-tex sheets that were to be the bases. 2. Rough cut it with a utility knife so there was about 1/8" of excess base material outside of the template. 3. Trace the template with a router. I use a 3/4" straight cut bit with a 3/4" bearing above the bit so the template can be exactly replicated. 4. Take the edge recess template and clamp it to the profiled base material. 5. Cut the straight sections at the tip and tail where the edge stops with a utility knife, and then towards the midpoint of the running length about an inch so the router bit has enough relief from the "wings" where the edge stops. 6. Trace the recess template with the router so the recess is there in the base material.

Making templates is pretty easy for me as I have acces to a full scale drafting plotter at school. Over the summer I was trying to print the 2-D drawings out on regular size paper and put them together piecewise. It was pretty hard to get everything exactly symmetrical. If you have the access to a big plotter, I would highly recommend that even if it means spending a couple of bucks at a printing store.

I am kind of excited to see how the aspen core differs from the core with white ash. Looking over my flex data from my class I was able to get my first pair within about 3% of the same flex as the my Volkl Explosiv. I changed up the core profile on the aspen to accomodate for the lack of the ash stiffness, so we'll see how well theory translates to reality. Now I guess the only question will be whether or not they blow apart when I try to ski them. --Geoff
collin
Posts: 105
Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 10:19 pm

Post by collin »

Well done man!
Explosiv's rock.

What's the core profile on 'em?
------------------Take nothing I say as expert advice------------------
Mongo
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:24 am
Location: Wedell Skis Lab

Post by Mongo »

Just got back from studying, tired, so here is a look at the pair I finished on saturday. More info to follow tomorrow. I call them "Hwy. 22" and they came out really well. I have made some significant modifications to the manufacturing since my first pair. Again details to follow. Dimensions 190cm, 125-100-115, 8mm camber, all aspen laminate core with white ash sidewalls.

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G-man
Posts: 600
Joined: Sat Mar 25, 2006 3:58 pm
Location: northern sierra nevada

Post by G-man »

Well Mongo, you look like one happy and proud ski builder. Your skis look great! Lookin' forward to a report on how the ski.

G-man
iggyskier
Posts: 274
Joined: Sun Apr 30, 2006 10:25 pm
Location: Portland, OR

Post by iggyskier »

how tall are you?! Those 190 seem really short compared to you.

Anyway, your skis look sick. Can't wait to here how they ski. Nicely done!
Mongo
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:24 am
Location: Wedell Skis Lab

Post by Mongo »

collin wrote:Well done man!
Explosiv's rock.

What's the core profile on 'em?
The core profile on the first pair was this:

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Mongo
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:24 am
Location: Wedell Skis Lab

Post by Mongo »

iggyskier wrote:how tall are you?! Those 190 seem really short compared to you.

Anyway, your skis look sick. Can't wait to here how they ski. Nicely done!
I am a little over 6'6" tall, and I was wearing my New Balances so that puts me up over 6'7". They are a true 190cm length, not like my Explosivs that say they are 190 but are a 187cm ski.

Onto my new ski, Hwy. 22. It is an all aspen vertical laminate core with treated white ash sidewalls. These skis turned out phenomenally well, which is good as I am getting better at this whole process. The dimensions on this model are 125-100-115 with 8mm of camber and a true 190cm length. The core profile is 10.5mm at mid thickness scaling down to 1.82mm in the tip and tail. I changed up the tipspacer setup to be 1/16" beige ABS, and also pre-attached it to the core introducing vibration damping elements at the mate of the core and tipspacer. Some rocker was also built into the front of the ski so it will be able to ride higher in powder. The flex turned out very good with the flexible tip section followed be a stiff middle and tail. This is what I had hoped for in the design calcs as i like a stiff ski for jumping off of rocks, but want to be able to have a lot of rise for skiing away from said rocks. Really the only real flexible part is in about the first 15" of the tip. These skis have what I was going for in a backcountry ski as they are still mid-stiff and fat, but weigh in at only 7.1 lbs for the pair. The graphics up in the tip were inspired by a compass and Lucky Strikes, while the tail is homage to the Teton Pass Highway 22.

Now for construction pictures...
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There is a 14 degree bevel put on the sidewalls starting 1.5mm above the edge.
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Top View.
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Tip Graphics. It's Toasted.
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Tail Graphics.
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Aspen core with white ash sidewalls attached.
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Profiled core.
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Edge tacking after bending.
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The new pre attachment method for the tipspacers. The tipspacer and core are sanded flush, then it is held on both sides by VDS using the syringe style 5 min epoxy. The mate looked so good after I cut the flash off.

I just finished another core tonight that has three 3/4" aspen strips followed by a white ash on either side then more aspen. The sidewalls are on and it is profiled a little bit differently than the Hwy. 22. Update on that to follow after I press them tomorrow and saturday. Some of the other pictures I have can be found here:

http://community.webshots.com/user/kvitfjell73

Thanks for all the positive comments. I have been having a blast with this. If you have any questions please fire them at me. Thanks. --Geoff
Mongo
Posts: 60
Joined: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:24 am
Location: Wedell Skis Lab

Post by Mongo »

Here is one of the new pairs I have finished recently. It has the same core profile as the Hwy. 22 that I made for my dad, but the core has a 3/4" white ash piece outside the three 3/4" aspen pieces in the middle. The sidewalls are white ash, beveled to 14 degrees, and treated with linseed oil. The length is 190 cm and sidecut of 125-105-115, and weigh 7.8 lbs for the pair. This was also the first pair I pressed with the 22 oz. triaxial fiberglass from www.raka.com . I had previously been using 22 oz. from Vectorply, and I think the raka stuff is slightly stiffer. It definitely has a tighter weave than the Vectorply and wet's out much better.I also changed up the bottom mold on these ski's so there is a slight bit of rocker in the tip, about 2mm, and the max height of the camber is set back from ski center to peak at boot center. I built 9mm of camber into the mold and 2 weeks after pressing the camber is 9mm. I have not had any relaxation on any of the ski's I have made, but as I am using a cold cure I expected this. I really like the flex on this ski as it is as stiff as my explosiv's through the running length, but has a slightly more flexible tip section-approximately the first foot of the tip. The graphics were simply printed out from my computer and laid up under the topsheet. The Wyoming Hwy. 22 sign is in the tails, and in front of the binding area I put a .45 6 shooter wrapped in a rose as homage to Roland from The Dark Tower series of books. I tried a new, brighter red flannel for this pair and the fabric bled like crazy in some spots. I will be switching up to a thinner fabric in the future. Fabric bleeding aside, this pair turned out really well and I am definitely getting better/faster at the whole process.

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My new powder ski design called "The Gunship" should be done by sunday which is a shaped waterski/K2 Pontoon design. The dimensions are 150-160-156-135-150, all aspen core, so that should be fairly interesting to ski when I head out to SLC in Feb. Comments, questions, general musings--fire away. --Geoff
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