CNC vs Planer

skimann20 · Post by **skimann20** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 5:08 pm

I've got a question for you all. Do you think there is an advantage to doing a reverse mold on your cnc and cutting the cores with a planer like moment and 0N3P skis? I'd think you would need to outfit your planer with a spiral cutter head to get me bang for your buck.

videos for reference:

For one-offs the CNC seems the only way to go. However, I would think if you found a core profile that really worked for you and you wanted to crank out 5 sets of cores the planner might be faster.

Maybe I need to play around with my cnc more but i think the CNC is no more faster to profile a core than my planer. (I have not been able to figure out how to combine profile/shape on bobCAD and I'm sure once I figure this out "production" time will decrease.)

Back to my original thought there has to be a reason these companies profile cores with a planer instead of their CNCs.

Opinions?

falls · Post by **falls** » Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:37 pm

way way faster to do it with a planer than every set with cnc. that's why they do it that way.
I remember some thread on here where someone said they had profiled a set of cores in 30 minutes on the planer and iggyskier replied and said when they get going they did something like 30 pairs in 4 hours. Not accurate but it was something like that.
cheaper too i would think as planer blades probably last longer than a cnc router bit.

I just did a set of cores this afternoon on my 15" planer. Just normal 3 blade cutterhead. Takes me about 30 minutes of time with a bit of stuffing around setting everything up.
ON3P use a spiral cutter head powermatic - or they did when they first started.

I would say if your volume is low to stick with the CNC even if you are doing the same profile over and over. CNC'd core profile sleds take up a lot more space than a dxf file and if you get your cnc running well it is a lot less work to click a button and watch it work rather than doing the work yourself.

skidesmond · Post by **skidesmond** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 4:45 am

Speed-wise I'd say the planer is faster. For most of us cellar-dwellers space is a big concern. I can put my planer away in a cabinet when I'm done, where as a cnc is going to take up a work bench. You'd have to get creative on doubling the cnc workbench use. Don't get me wrong I'd like to get a cnc some day to make it easier to do one-offs and customization. Templates and multiple planer cribs take up space too. That's why I'm working on a better adjustable planer crib that can handle linear tapers from 150-185m.

MadRussian · Post by **MadRussian** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:08 am

skidesmond wrote:Speed-wise I'd say the planer is faster.

it all depends on the set up. I never use planer for profiling. My router jig built similarly to CNC and take about 15 to 20 min. to cut pair of cores

For most of us cellar-dwellers space is a big concern. I can put my planer away in a cabinet when I'm done, where as a cnc is going to take up a work bench. You'd have to get creative on doubling the cnc workbench use.

space in premium in garage also. My shop is 1.5 car garage. CNC can be build with adjustable height legs where other tools stored under knees like tablesaw for example, all on whees. That's how I do it otherwise simply no space to work

I would say if your volume is low to stick with the CNC even if you are doing the same profile over and over. CNC'd core profile sleds take up a lot more space than a dxf file and if you get your cnc running well it is a lot less work to click a button and watch it work rather than doing the work yourself.

I agree.
In nonproduction environment time is irrelevant, to a certain degree of cause. If I had CNC and it take two hours to cut the set of cores. I wouldn't be looking for improvements. Set it up and have a couple beers while CNC working

. What else can be better?

[/quote]

MontuckyMadman · Post by **MontuckyMadman** » Sat Jan 11, 2014 9:36 am

I got th cnc time down to 20min per core. Long and fat. I can do allot of other shit in that time rather than feed wood through the planer. It can cut templates and molds. No more patterning on the router table. I dont cut the same core profile all the time but frequently. Its an extremly powerful tool and more acurate then my planer ever was.

twizzstyle · Post by **twizzstyle** » Sun Jan 12, 2014 11:39 am

I was never ever able to profile a core + UHMW sidewall completely on the planer without ripping out some amount of sidewall. The last few pairs I did had minimal damage, but I never had a flawless result. Probably better with a nicer planer and sharper blades. ON3P is only profiling the core itself, their sidewalls are pre-profiled separately.

With my CNC I've never had an issue with sidewalls, and it's about 20-30min to profile two skis - all hands off, I hit the go button and go work on other stuff.

iggyskier · Post by **iggyskier** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:53 pm

skimann20 wrote:
For one-offs the CNC seems the only way to go. However, I would think if you found a core profile that really worked for you and you wanted to crank out 5 sets of cores the planner might be faster.

This. Prototypes = CNC. Production = Planer. Speed isn't even close. We have a decent planer (though nothing amazing) with a Byrd Spiral Cutter Head and can usually get through about 15 pairs/hour.

skimann20 · Post by **skimann20** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:33 pm

15 pairs a hour is flying! how much are you taking off each pass? Byrd Spiral Cutter heads are sooooo nice. I'm envious. i'm sure with that head and enough HP you can get that many done in an hour.

I like everyones thoughts on this. Sometimes I think there are so many questions on the HOW on this site and not enough of the what ifs, ect. (plus i love improving the efficiency of any operation, drives my wife nuts)

originskis · Post by **originskis** » Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:57 pm

I use my Hitachi 15" planer and can do a pair of cores in about 10mins to within a few hundredths of a millimeter. Use it to make the reverse molds too

Still interested in a CNC, though. I came up with the reverse molds I use by watching ON3P and Moment's factory vids. As far as a spiral cutterhead- I don't have one and still get lots of cores profiled without getting the blades sharpened!

chrismp · Post by **chrismp** » Sat Jan 18, 2014 2:22 am

If you have the manpower to operate a planer, then i'm sure it's the fastest way. However, if you're building only with one or two people a CNC speeds up the process considerably. The thing that takes the longest is to profile the core on a CNC...I usually cut out the base right before profiling and attach the edges and prepare everything for layup while the CNC chews away at the core.

mikemigs10 · Post by **mikemigs10** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 9:00 am

I have been using a planner, some days I wish I had a cnc, only because the wedge board that I make can be annoyingly heavy some times.

I have watched the moment videos a few times and one thing that I noticed was they plane the core then cut it out with a cnc then they attach the sidewalls. I have been attaching sidewalls to a template core cut out then planning it. every once in a while I have sidewalls pop off but I found that if it mix the epoxy and then let it sit in the cup and "cure" a little bit I have very good results when planning. I have been thinking of trying it and probably will today or tomorrow but I want to send a block of sidewall thru the planner on a wedge board, then slice it and attach to profiled cores. Good Idea?

twizzstyle · Post by **twizzstyle** » Thu Jan 30, 2014 1:16 pm

Good idea, if you can keep the material down and profile it ok in the planer. A few people attach sidewalls pre-profiled. I did it once (although I used my CNC to profile the edge material in a big slab, then sliced it up into 4 sidewalls.

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