Weird Room 2015

Document your personal work here. Show photos, movies, and share your secrets.

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vinman
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Post by vinman »

I love your printed graphics. What kind of paper did you use I can't see it at all.
Fighting gravity on a daily basis
www.Whiteroomcustomskis.com
MadRussian
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Post by MadRussian »

Love your graphics. Is that regular paper?
I've officially outgrown my dust collector.
If you buy or build cyclone attachment to the dust collector it will SUBSTANTIALLY improve it efficiency. What size of dust collector do you have?
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
Thomas A. Edison
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chrismp
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Post by chrismp »

Nice skis!

Don't try to re-press that board once it has cured for a few days. I tried that once and totally trashed the board. Re-pressing must be done as soon as possible after the first press.

15-20 passes with 60 grit sounds like an awful lot to get rid of the epoxy on the base! On my boards it only takes 2-4 passes with 80 grit and an autofeed set to a low pressure.
IslandRider
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Post by IslandRider »

Thanks for all the comments guys! Hands down best pair I've made. Makes the long stressful weekend in the garage worthwhile. Graphics were a last minute Saturday morning program that ended up taking all dded day. I needed them in the press by Saturday night to allow time to cure, clean up, and get them to the shop in time for this trip. Finally turned the light off in the garage @5:30 Sunday morning. Ridiculous, won't do it again.
twizzstyle wrote:I love the graphics on the new skis, is that printed on rice paper?

I just saw your homemade drag knife, looks really slick. I'm curious if you machined it on your CNC router? I've been dying to try aluminum on my router, but haven't had the guts. I have a CNC mill, but it has a TINY working area so it's very limiting. I use lots of cutting oil on it though when cutting steel or aluminum, which I can't do on my big CNC router with the MDF spoilboard.
Just regular tissue/wrapping paper from Staples. Glue stick it to some 8.5x11s taped together shiny side down and go.

Ya, cut the drag knife parts on the router. I've messed around here and there with little aluminum brackets, but this was the first real machined part. Broke 4 cutters and wasted a bunch of material getting it dialed in. My machine really isn't rigid enough to do it well, but going real slow with real shallow depth of cut it can manage. Have to use carbide tooling, I use 1/8" two flute end mills, but single flute would probably be better. Cut dry, but I've been toying with the idea of a rubbermaid tub with an aquarium pump in it to set on top of the spoil board. Just one more project for the list.
vinman wrote: What kind of paper did you use I can't see it at all.
Ya I'm happy with how they came out. Same paper on a darker background is slightly visible still, but with light maple veneer it just disappeared.
chrisp wrote: 15-20 passes with 60 grit sounds like an awful lot to get rid of the epoxy on the base! On my boards it only takes 2-4 passes with 80 grit and an autofeed set to a low pressure.
Tell me about it. Last few pairs I've made with West epoxy were the same, didn't have much trouble cleaning them up. Skis didn't even have much epoxy on the bases, just a little bleed around the edges. Epoxy is just rock hard when cured. Fit up on the inlays for the split wasn't great so it had a ton of leak through to the base that was a royal pain to get off. No power feed, done by hand, but he said he was hogging on them pretty good. They're flat, and the little that's left around the edges will probably file off when I set the edges. If not I may take it somewhere with a powerfeed and ask them to put it through a few more times on slow.

Not sure what to do to prevent it from getting on there in the first place. Thinking maybe hitting the bases with some mold release before I glue them to the cassette. I've tried packing tape and find that just leaves with another layer of shit glued in there that has to come off.
MadRussian wrote:
If you buy or build cyclone attachment to the dust collector it will SUBSTANTIALLY improve it efficiency. What size of dust collector do you have?
I've got a cyclone on there, which helps prolong time before emptying the bag, but definitely doesn't help with the fact that there's just not enough flow. I'm using a cheap 1hp harbour freight style blower because that's what I have room for. By the time the hose snakes through the drag chain and sizes down to the shoe there just isn't enough flow to pick it all up. Finish machining, MDF, smaller projects are no problem. Profiling cores it clogs up right away. Partly because I'm using cedar that comes off real stringy and sticks to everything. Sometimes I'll hook the shop vac straight to the shoe, but only if I'm going to leave the room and let it run because I don't like listening to it. One day I'll have a bigger shop and room for a real dust collector.
MadRussian
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Post by MadRussian »

I have same problem one car garage simply a storage not the workshop. In order do to work I have to rollout a lot of tools.
1 hp dust collector simply don't have enough power/airflow for cyclone to work properly specially if it decent size. Mine about 6 foot tall. Even with floor space in extreme premium I think big dust collector is a must. Mine 2 hp and I think this minimum for what we do. You can try to add leaf blower on inlet of cyclone to increase airflow. Higher airflow = more dust separation.
In my set up only finest dust get into dust collector bag even than after about six buckets full of sawdust from cyclone practically nothing in bottom bag of dust collector
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
Thomas A. Edison
IslandRider
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Post by IslandRider »

Aight, questions about topsheet peeling/delam. What am I doing wrong here? Easy answer is don't cross skis as much since most of the damage is directly related to the edge of the opposite ski, but that doesn't explain tips and tails peeling off. This is after just 3 days on snow. The fact that the veneer is picking up water suggests not enough epoxy, but there's similar issue in areas I know were wet out enough but it seems to have just squeezed out and not saturated the veneer. First time with maple veneer, and first time I've put a topsheet over veneer. Mohogany I've used before was completely saturated after pressing.

Topsheet is Duravision 50/50. I did wet out the top of the veneer before putting the topsheet on, only thing I'm thinking is maybe not enough? Normally I get a ton of squeeze through veneers when I use them without a topsheet. Figured that plus a little wet out on top would be fine, but apparently not. There was definitely lots of epoxy above and below veneer in graphics area because I wanted to make sure that wet out well, and lots of peeling in those areas specifically. Sidewalls are beveled @ 7° or so, and then I block sanded the topsheet edge to try to set it back a bit from the very edge of the ski so it didn't grab. Everything was clean and dry when it went together. Used the topsheet as it arrived, with abraded side down.

Any ideas? Different material? More setback on the topsheet? I've heard of some companies trimming the topsheet back from the side of the ski 1/8" or so to address this.

Should I try to press this back on, or just trim it off and seal with clear/epoxy?

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ben_mtl
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Post by ben_mtl »

I didn't try the Duravision5050 yet but even CrownPlatics told me it's less durable than other topheet materials. However I don't expect it to peel and kinda delam like in your pics.
Do you sand/round the top edge all around your skis (edge between the topsheet and the sidewalls) ? On my first builds I noticed a well rounded top edge improves the durability, or at least shows less cosmetic abuse.
A bad day skiing is always better than a good one at work...
gav wa
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Post by gav wa »

Maybe peel the entire clear top layer off and then just hot coat them.
IslandRider
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Post by IslandRider »

ben_mtl wrote:I didn't try the Duravision5050 yet but even CrownPlatics told me it's less durable than other topheet materials. However I don't expect it to peel and kinda delam like in your pics.
Do you sand/round the top edge all around your skis (edge between the topsheet and the sidewalls) ? On my first builds I noticed a well rounded top edge improves the durability, or at least shows less cosmetic abuse.
Interesting. And yes I sanded the top edge to smooth it out, after running a deburring tool around it to cut back a bit. Thought it was enough but maybe not.
gav wa wrote:Maybe peel the entire clear top layer off and then just hot coat them.
Thought about that, but I'm worried it may peel the graphics with it, which would suck.
Dtrain
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Post by Dtrain »

I had this happen recently. Not enough resin between the 2 layers, or two much pressure of the hop and not enough heat.

Ours way nylon though. I reefed them off with plyers days later . Took some veneer with it. I sanded some spots and put a couple coats on. They look like an old pair of jeans now. Ride just the same.

As far hot coat....
A hot coat is when you heat your epoxy up then mix hardner heavy and brush on. Cures faster leaves less bubbles.
knightsofnii
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Post by knightsofnii »

that's why i like the pbt topsheets, they chip away instead of peel.

These clear tops dont chip, once a spot lifts, it pulls on it's neighboring areas, and the lifting spot grows.
Doug
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MontuckyMadman
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Post by MontuckyMadman »

Yep. Not enough resin, or it squeezed out. Thats why those tops delam like that.
IslandRider
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Post by IslandRider »

So the question is how do I stop it from squeezing out? Do I press at really low pressure till it gels then crank it up? Lower the pressure overall? Layer of veil on top of the graphics under the topsheet to hold some resin? These were pressed @ ~55psi, same as all the others I've done, straight to pressure, but no heat. Resin I'm using doesn't start to set up for an hour or more at room temp. I have heat blankets for the next pressing, but the resin will still take 30min or so to gel I suspect. The layup doesn't really conform perfectly to the molds in tips and tails until about 40psi or so. I guess there's some room to play with, but it would suck to end up resin rich tips and tails to keep the topsheet on but not enough squeeze out in the glass layers.
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falls
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Post by falls »

Sometimes you get concentrated pressure at the very tip and tail because they come to a point and the cat tracks pressure is concentrated over a much smaller area than further into the ski where the width to apply the pressure is much more.
Some people use the crescent shaped scrap of base material and stick it to the cassette around the tip and tail. That way it mimics having more width in the tip and tail and avoids concentrated pressure. The other alternative is to leave the tips unshsped and do that after pressing (only works if you are doing 3/4 wrap).
Hard to tell from pics but also looks like you could get more aggressive with your topsheet bevel and sanding back
Don't wait up, I'm off to kill Summer....
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MontuckyMadman
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Post by MontuckyMadman »

If you cook the ski for an hour, your good. Its the long press time and no heat that bleeds the resin. Youre gonna get a stronger bond with an approipriate heat cure depends on the resin system but you should be useing a high quality, not worth it to skimp there. Scrap base in the tip works also and doesnt reallly do any harm unless of course it slips and ends up in the ski or under/on top of it.
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