Hi there,
already did two boards with transparent base and have faced strange problem. In the place where edge is located is no bonding with fiberglass. Seems like air holds there. Have no idea what is it.
May be I had same problems with colored base material, but I could not see it.
Prior to attaching edge to the base we have sanded it to eliminate presence of any rust or enamel.
May be rubber foil did not attach to the base or bubbles spread under the pressure and stuck in that place. May be because we rub the rubber foil with white spirit prior to layup.
The last thing I think about is that we have used UV printing (with primer as it was recommended) and may be under the press pressure and temperature inks dissolves in the place of edges since there is applied more force due to the presence of edge and rubber.
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:21 am
by vinman
Don't put anything on the VDS. By "white spirits" do you mean
Mineral spirits? I would not put anything on the VDS. Keep it clean handle it with gloves and put it in the lay up as is.
Also don't sand off the primer on the edge. If it shows some light rust you can sand that lightly but don't sand it down to shiny metal. The primer is there for a reason, improved bonding.
How are you attaching your edges to your base material?
If using CA glue, how much and are you gluing every edge tine? If so do not do this, glue only every 3 or 4th tine.
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 10:46 am
by pmg
Did you put epoxy in between the edges and the vds? Looks to me as if there never was some...
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:04 pm
by motoman
pmg wrote:Did you put epoxy in between the edges and the vds? Looks to me as if there never was some...
When we did the first board we didn't pay too much attention to the epoxy in between edge teeth and VDS rubber. Just spread the epoxy uniformly, then soaked strips of VDS rubber in remaining epoxy and put them into the place.
Next time we took brush and roller to be sure that epoxy penetrated everywhere but the problem remained.
Right now we do next board.
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 12:18 pm
by motoman
vinman wrote:Don't put anything on the VDS. By "white spirits" do you mean
Mineral spirits? I would not put anything on the VDS. Keep it clean handle it with gloves and put it in the lay up as is.
Also don't sand off the primer on the edge. If it shows some light rust you can sand that lightly but don't sand it down to shiny metal. The primer is there for a reason, improved bonding.
How are you attaching your edges to your base material?
If using CA glue, how much and are you gluing every edge tine? If so do not do this, glue only every 3 or 4th tine.
Regarding to "white spirit" - yes, it is mineral spirit.
We have been using it to clean topsheet and VDS rubber, until now))
As for the edges.
First time we didn't sand edges, but after the failure we thought that it it could be a reason and have sanded it to shine.
Now I know that primer plays a role here.
Concerning the glue.
We use superglue and put a drop of it each 6-7 teeth in straight areas and each 2-3 teeth in the tip and tail.
We tried to do the best, like it was written in "how to" section ans some topics and were shown on some videos.
This time we won't use mineral spirit and won't oversand edges. In one hour we will see the result.
Very hope that your advice will help.
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:10 pm
by MontuckyMadman
Vacuum? = Not enough pressure. Pnematic = to kuch and too slow a ure no resin. Did you rabbet the core for edge tine?
Posted: Wed Jan 27, 2016 11:20 pm
by heke
MontuckyMadman wrote: Did you rabbet the core for edge tine?
Do you mean that there is not enoúght space for fibres between core and edge? This came to my mind but as novice I don't know?
What is enought pressure? I could get -0.65 bar?
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:44 am
by motoman
MontuckyMadman wrote:Vacuum? = Not enough pressure. Pnematic = to kuch and too slow a ure no resin. Did you rabbet the core for edge tine?
We use pneumatic press and work under 60 psi (4 atm or bar).
Press reaches working pressure during half a minute. Actually I never pinpoint it.
By the rabbet you mean trench for edge in the core, yes?
We don't do the trench. I thought that it is not necessary.
Actually we did third trial and the result is the same.
I'm upset and disappointed.
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 12:57 am
by motoman
Also when we did first trial we haven't put inserts deep enough so that a head of the insert was a little protruded beyond. As a result we saw our inserts on the base. It meant that inks in that place were dissolved.
may be reason is the same.
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 2:40 am
by Akiwi
heke wrote:
MontuckyMadman wrote: Did you rabbet the core for edge tine?
Do you mean that there is not enoúght space for fibres between core and edge? This came to my mind but as novice I don't know?
What is enought pressure? I could get -0.65 bar?
-0.65 Bar is not a lot.
My system is running at -0.9, so that is quite a lot higher.
Im not an expert but I would suggest, try the rabbet, so there is not too much preasure on the edge.
Also in your layup, take the time to make sure there is a generous amount of epoxy filling the teeth areas of your edge.
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:12 am
by motoman
Akiwi wrote:
heke wrote:
MontuckyMadman wrote: Did you rabbet the core for edge tine?
Also in your layup, take the time to make sure there is a generous amount of epoxy filling the teeth areas of your edge.
The one thing that we haven't try yet is rabbet. On most videos I haven't seen that people make rabbet.
As for filling teeth, now we are overconcentrated on that areas. So the reason of amount of epoxy is excluded.
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:23 am
by motoman
I do understand how to apply trench for snowboards or skies without sidewalls, but I don't understand how to make it in the place of tip and tail.
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:37 am
by MadRussian
I don't do rabbet and have no problems
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:54 am
by motoman
Definitely rabbet decreases pressure of sidewall and core on the edge. Today we will make an experiment with sublimated base and clear base to eliminate variant with inks.
Posted: Thu Jan 28, 2016 3:54 am
by motoman
MadRussian wrote:I don't do rabbet and have no problems
