Blackmore

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bishop119
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:46 pm
Location: Bozeman, MT

Blackmore

Post by bishop119 »

Well this is more for me to log my own progress with a place to look back to for information. I am in the process of creating my first pair of skis and I am stoked to get started. Currently, Covid-19 has stalled out plans to set up shop with my buddy but that's okay it leaves more time to figure out how I am going to make this happen.

I have attached my current ski design, taking traits from my current skis and adding something new. My plan is to make a 139-100-120 174cm ski with a 18m sidecut and a rocker/camber profile with a partial twin tail. After creating this design I realized a 10mm camber is a bit much for this ski and will be toning that down a bit. I'm planning on having a wood veneer cap top using a vacuum press. With the design fleshed out, for the most part, my attention has turned to the core profile and estimating the flex. I am aiming for a med flex ski and thinking of using an ash core, I know looking through this site that a wood veneer top cap can add a bit of stiffness so I might need to experiment with that a little to get it right. I'm feeling a little more confident in my knowledge each day but I can't help but feel ill never know exactly what I'm doing until I get started.

Any beginner tips or feedback on my current design/plan would be greatly appreciated!
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MadRussian
Posts: 701
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:32 pm
Location: USA

Re: Blackmore

Post by MadRussian »

Any beginner tips or feedback on my current design/plan would be greatly appreciated
concentrate lesson ski design. Concentrate more on setup shop and get needed equipment.
Don't over think it.

You mentioned camber. When building my first pair skis camber section of the mold didn't come out as well as I expected. And I decided to save time for the first pair to build the skis zero camber. Guess what, I'm still building only zero camber skis 10 years later
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
Thomas A. Edison

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Dr. Delam
Posts: 406
Joined: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:07 am
Location: Truckee

Re: Blackmore

Post by Dr. Delam »

What type of terrain are you planning this ski for? My initial impressions are that the tip is very low, there is a lot of tip to tail taper, and a lot of tip rocker especially in relation to the tail rocker.

Also keep in mind that you will lose some tip height depending how long your core extends into the tip area. How are you making your mold? Adjustable at all?

bishop119
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:46 pm
Location: Bozeman, MT

Re: Blackmore

Post by bishop119 »

MadRussian wrote:
Sat Apr 11, 2020 6:42 pm
Any beginner tips or feedback on my current design/plan would be greatly appreciated
concentrate lesson ski design. Concentrate more on setup shop and get needed equipment.
Don't over think it.

You mentioned camber. When building my first pair skis camber section of the mold didn't come out as well as I expected. And I decided to save time for the first pair to build the skis zero camber. Guess what, I'm still building only zero camber skis 10 years later
Yeah I have been looking into shop things but we were planning on setting up shop at my buddies place but we have put that on hold for now due to social distancing. I have been looking into that I know the most I will learn will be from actually building.

As for Camber I appreciate that tip on that. what went wrong in your first try with the mold?

bishop119
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:46 pm
Location: Bozeman, MT

Re: Blackmore

Post by bishop119 »

The plan is to use it for all-mountain terrain, the tip is 50mm high and it was my first time trying to create a rocker in solidworks which could be the reason for the shallow taper up and as for the tail the plan was just a partial twin tip modeling the skis i use currently

MadRussian
Posts: 701
Joined: Thu Sep 30, 2010 12:32 pm
Location: USA

Re: Blackmore

Post by MadRussian »

bishop119 wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:47 pm


As for Camber I appreciate that tip on that. what went wrong in your first try with the mold?
MDF ribs mold construction not simple to make flat surface not to mention heat blanket can do number on MDF making it even worse.

as for equipment. I suggest buy old industrial equipment like tablesaw bandsaw. 3 phase the best. People don't want three phase equipment any more. With Rotary phase converter is simple to run in-home shop. Besides that dust collector with cyclone 2 hp at least and air filtration. air filters is very important because we create a lot of fine dust for example One of my air filters can circulate air in my shop in 1 min.
I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work.
Thomas A. Edison

bishop119
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:46 pm
Location: Bozeman, MT

Re: Blackmore

Post by bishop119 »

MadRussian wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:48 am
bishop119 wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 6:47 pm


As for Camber I appreciate that tip on that. what went wrong in your first try with the mold?
MDF ribs mold construction not simple to make flat surface not to mention heat blanket can do number on MDF making it even worse.

as for equipment. I suggest buy old industrial equipment like tablesaw bandsaw. 3 phase the best. People don't want three phase equipment any more. With Rotary phase converter is simple to run in-home shop. Besides that dust collector with cyclone 2 hp at least and air filtration. air filters is very important because we create a lot of fine dust for example One of my air filters can circulate air in my shop in 1 min.
In the shop we have a planner, table saw, jigsaw, router, and drills. looking into getting a bandsaw but might just stick with the jigsaw for now and see how it turns out. hopefully, we will start setting up specific shop setups next week. looking to start making the core profiling table and then mold/vacuum table

bishop119
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:46 pm
Location: Bozeman, MT

Re: Blackmore

Post by bishop119 »

Somehow I didn't think of this before but with the planer i think im going to use that for the core profiling, I will just need to do some more research on what to do for a crib/how to get the thickness I want. As for my rocker/camber profile I think im going to try the way Akiwi laid his HB boards out and have a piece of wood in the middle of the camber underneath and clamp down where the contact points are. From there my plan is create a tip and tail mold and experiment.

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Dr. Delam
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Location: Truckee

Re: Blackmore

Post by Dr. Delam »

I second using a planer for core profiling. After messing around with a router setup I built a few sleds for the planer and found it to be much faster and more accurate. I drew up the thickness profile on a cad program and took measurements every 10 centimeters to make the spacers. It takes some time to do the initial setup but so does everything in ski building.

As far as a band saw goes, I say skip it unless you are planning on going high volume or using it for other projects. They are useful if making core blocks and great for cutting the flashing after pressing but I find a jigsaw is sufficient when starting out small.

bishop119
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:46 pm
Location: Bozeman, MT

Re: Blackmore

Post by bishop119 »

Dr.D, I looked through your soul ski journal and you have made some pretty sweet skis! I think i am going to mimic your crib model but i also its going to take some trial and error getting it all right.

bishop119
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:46 pm
Location: Bozeman, MT

Re: Blackmore

Post by bishop119 »

Quick update: I think I have talked around and I have settled on having a 2-12-2mm core with a 1deg taper. tomorrow we are getting into the shop and going to get started on what we can and looking to order materials. I think the things i am struggling with the most right now are designing the crib and tip/tail spacer. With the crib I think I have the basic concept down but I think I am struggling to get the final idea down on paper but I think just getting down to it and seeing what we can make will help more than anything. I'm really excited to get started though!

bishop119
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:46 pm
Location: Bozeman, MT

Re: Blackmore

Post by bishop119 »

Got some work done this week
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Made a makeshift edge bender off a method found on boardcrafters.com
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Also we got a crib made for the core profiling, should be able to test it out later this week. Other than that most of our materials have arrived now so its about time to really get started. My only problem I am trying to solve is working with the vacuum press. We got a pretty bare bones vacuum pump for cheap that works but I was wondering if i needed to add much to it for a continuous run, I have my pipe fittings, gage, connector for the bag and such but im not sure if im missing anythig so if anyone had any info from what they have done that would be helpful. Also is a vacuum filter needed for this set up and is the only pipe needed go directly from the bag to the pump?

bishop119
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Feb 03, 2020 2:46 pm
Location: Bozeman, MT

Re: Blackmore

Post by bishop119 »

This week was pretty busy all around, we got our core and base templates cut and our first base cut. we had a couple of issues with the router and accidentally cut into our template for the base and need to make a new one which proved frustrating today so I decided to call it a day. This week I am looking to get edges glued to our bases and getting cores profiled. we added weatherstrip tape to the crib which works perfectly. I think we are going to wing it with the pump right now and see what happens. Now if I could get this router under control I will be very happy.

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Dr. Delam
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Location: Truckee

Re: Blackmore

Post by Dr. Delam »

It's all part of learning. Sometimes you need to make mistakes to figure out the best way to do things.

My one suggestion although too late would be to make the spacers for your crib much shorter. It will be lighter and more stable. If you used screws it will probably be fine. I used brad nails for mine which would topple over if it were made that tall. There's a lot of pulling and counter forces when you send it through the planer.

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