Jonrezz’s Build Log

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Jonrezz
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by Jonrezz »

Thanks! Yeah I am going to try that this time, attach the base to a piece of wood a bit narrower than the ski and not unclamp it before both edges are on. My buddy suggested attaching the bases right to the aluminum cassette and cnc the shape/ do the edges / lay it up without ever removing the bases from the aluminum, but I have my reservations with that method, especially after we do our first press I have a feeling the aluminum won’t sit flat on the spoilboard the next time.

I’ve been waiting for some new materials to come in, bases, edges, top sheet etc. so I decided to redo my tip and tail blocks as chrismp suggested in the meantime, as well as made them sit taller to allow a piece of 5.5mm underlayment go between them, on which the aluminum cassette will sit. I realize that I will need to replace the underlayment for various mold lengths but it’s cheap material and easy to work with, I think it’ll help smooth out the aluminum on ribs a lot under pressure. Also I’m thinking about covering the tip and tail blocks with some spare aluminum or something to stop epoxy from getting between them if it does drip over the end like last time.

I got my veneer layer in, went with some gray dyed oak veneer. Might try to do some type of graphic too, undecided there on how to approach that. Gonna be a green base so maybe some green stripes or lettering/clip art on rice paper? Anyway, here’s some pics:


The redone tip/tail mold shape:
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The 5.5mm wood sitting on the mold:
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And an overall:
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Last edited by Jonrezz on Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jonrezz
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by Jonrezz »

So I was at it again this weekend! pressed my first actual pair to bring to the mountain! The skis are 165cm with a slalom shape. The composition was base, veil, uniaxial carbon fiber stringer between the edge tangs, full triax fiberglass layer, maple/poplar core, triax fiber binding mount pad, full triax fiber layer, uniaxial carbon stringer, grey dyed oak veneer, matte/clear topsheet. I left out the titanol because i was worried about how stiff it would become. turned out to be a good decision, these skis came out about right, actually a bit stiffer than the Fischer rc4's, but hard to compare because the ones I have are over 10 years old and probably lost some of their strength.

To address base warp, I glued both edges on at the same time and didnt remove the base clamps until it was time to move to the cassette:

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here's the composites and cassette laid out ready to go! I decided to do layup on my saw horses instead of on the mold, laying up on a flat surface then moving it onto the mold was definitely easier than doing layup on top of the mold:

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here's the new & improved mold 2.0 in action. the oil mist eliminator is from solberg. worked like a charm:

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and moment of truth - here's the plank fresh outta the oven:

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rough cut on the bandsaw:

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time to clean them up with a belt sander and get to figuring out an edge beveling setup!

The camber came out a bit more than I was expecting this time, 15 mm at the peak, probably because I included carbon fiber, but I'm gonna ride them anyway, hopefully its not a big deal. the bases are flat and didnt warp too much. core alignment was ok, the tails were off by a mm or two but not a huge deal, I poured the sidewalls a bit wider than needed in case that happened.

all in all its shaping up to be a pretty good build I think! looking forward to getting them cleaned up and bindings mounted for a day on the mountain! It's actually snowing out as I type this!

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Jonrezz
Posts: 74
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Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by Jonrezz »

Cleaned them up on a spindle sander! I think I'm just gonna use the spindle sander to bevel the edges too, you can adjust the surface angle from flat to like 45 degrees, its this: https://www.homedepot.com/p/RIDGID-Osci ... /202459151

anyway, here's some pics!

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Looking forward to making the next pair and trying these out in a couple weeks! next pair is going to be a more relaxed all mountain shape with rocker camber rocker profile for my friend. another buddy wants a snowboard. gonna be a busy winter! 8)
SleepingAwake
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Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by SleepingAwake »

those are looking fantastic!

Congrats!
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chrismp
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Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by chrismp »

Looking great! You can use the spindle sander to bevel the sidewalls, but you should be careful not to grind into the top part of the edge too much as with the spindle sander you are lacking the follower bearing of a router bit running along the edges.
Jonrezz
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by Jonrezz »

Thanks!

Do you use a router with a beveling bit? the thought of messing up and gouging them will give me nightmares. I've seen some pretty tragic photos of damage caused by people using a router to bevel their sidewall and slipping. I feel like sanding would be a much more slow and controlled process. one thing that's bugging me though is, you can't really get that "step" in the sidewall right above the edge with a sander can you - this:

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do you normally ignore that until the bevel is done and then go at it with a swix sidewall cutter or something to get that "step"? do you skip it overall? not really sure how important it is.

I do like the one jig with the skateboard truck on a router table, I have a portable router table laying around, I could try to convert it. Might give that a go and see how it works on the junk ski I pressed before this pair.

My friend who wants the rocker camber rocker ski is still undecided about his composites, graphics and stuff, so looks like my next build is gonna be the snowboard while he makes up his mind. I have the board's core wood laminated together, toolpaths for the cnc are ready, and I'm in the process of adjusting the mold - cutting out some additional ribs and tip/tail blocks to accommodate the profile he wants to go for. not much to show yet as far as photos, all I've done is glue some planks of wood together and computer/cad/design work.

Going to be a146 cm board with medium/soft flex since he's a light guy, 5'6" tall, 120 lbs. I'm thinking 20 oz triax fiber above and below, similar topsheet and base as this last build (as much as I wanted to try something new/different, he liked what I did for my skis, so, we're going to match on the mountain I guess lol). I'm hoping 7mm thick underfoot with 4 maple strips and the rest poplar will produce a good result for him, but I have no real idea how the stiffness will come out since it's going to be twice as wide as a typical pair of skis.

a couple things I'll be doing that are new for me are - green pigment in the sidewalls, binding screw inserts, "magnetration" edge serrations and a camber rocker camber profile (similar to the lib tech banana). Will be cool to see how those play out, and of course I'll post here as I go.

Cheers!
-Jon
SleepingAwake
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Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by SleepingAwake »

magne traction is a pain to bend the edges. worth it tho. i made a snowboard with it last season and working on a pair of skis with magne traction right now.

I can share some pictures of my beveling technique when i finish my pair. I basically sand the sidewalls on the belt sander until i touch the edge, and then i use a router with a dovetail bit to make the bevel and step. I make a stop with a wooden block that i clamp to the router to adjust and set the the depth of the step, and how far the tool sticks out will determine the height/position of the step. It is a little bit sketchy, but the results so far have all been great.

7mm seems thick as core thickness for a medium flex, but i would need to have a closer look at my spreadsheets. Maybe other can chime in.
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chrismp
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Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by chrismp »

I use a diy router table with the router mounted below the table at the desired sidewall angle. The bit I use is a rather large (20mm = roughly 3/4") with a follower bearing at the shaft end (often called pattern bit or flush trim bit). The table surface has a bump perpendicular to the router bit on which the ski/snowboard runs, so I don't have to deal with pressing down the camber to avoid hitting the edges with the router bit. I will take a photo later today, as a picture is easier to understand than words in this case. ;)

After cutting the flash, I grind the sidewalls on a vertical belt sander until I lightly hit the edges to get a smooth vertical surface. Then I use my router setup to add an angle to the sidewall. There is a small gap between the bearing and the cutter edges on the router bit that leaves a small portion of vertical sidewall just above the edges. However, it doesn't create the kind of set-back sidewall like in the graphic you posted.

To be honest, I don't really know if the vertical part of the sidewall on some skis serves a purpose or if it's just due to construction methods. All I know is that not all skis/snowboards have this - on some the sidewall bevel starts right at the edge.
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chrismp
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Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by chrismp »

Here are some photos of my setup:
IMG-20201130-WA0001.jpg
IMG-20201130-WA0001.jpg (205.65 KiB) Viewed 10135 times
IMG-20201130-WA0000.jpg
IMG-20201130-WA0000.jpg (138.59 KiB) Viewed 10135 times
What also works quite well according to a friend of mine and others on this forum is using a trim router with a tilting base. For this method you might want to extend the base of the router to one side so it has a larger portion of it base riding on the base of the ski to prevent it from tipping.
Jonrezz
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Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by Jonrezz »

Cool setup! thanks for the pics!

I really like the safety/dust enclosure with lighting too.
Jonrezz
Posts: 74
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Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by Jonrezz »

So the next pair of skis ended up coming first after all! my friend decided to go with a cherry veneer, red base, and full tip wrapped edges! The skis are all mountain style 160 cm with a rocker camber rocker profile. the edges were a huge pain in the butt! after doing these with a pair of pliers, lots of hours later, they were formed, and I was motivated to finally figure out an edge bender, because, lets face it, tip wrapped edges are pretty badass lol. anyway, here's some build pics, starring my friend who was over to help build them:

edges and bases on the cassette. since we did a full edge wrap, we used the offcut base material to align the cores and bases during layup with some pencil lines outside the range of the fiberglass:
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carbon stringers between the edges with veil underneath. please excuse the mess in the background. will clean that up. one day...:
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fiberglass and cores going on:
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he wanted to do these x shapes above the core with the carbon. I don't know if they're going to do anything, but I guess its cool, I didn't protest lol:
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Ready for the oven!
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cooking...
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here's where we're at. he insisted I wait for him to come visit again to cut out and finish the skis, so they'll be on pause for now:
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afterwards we made an ugly, but functional edge bender. fair warning, neither of us are accomplished metalworkers:
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similar design to others that made vise benders on here. some rollers with bearings would be a nice addition, but it still bends straight enough. my solution to the play/wiggle in the harbor freight vise's jaw was to have the moving roller on the side, so when you get an edge in there, it cocks to one side and stays predictable.

..and a couple bonus pics, snowboard core's sidewall trenches are hot off the CNC. was experimenting with some polyurethane dye, but the colors came out too bright. the red looks pink and the green looks more like a seafoam to me. maybe because the plastic cures white? going to need to get that sorted before I proceed:

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That's the update for tonight! Unfortunately, my green and gray pair of skis are still at the shop getting bindings mounted and bases ground flat so I cant show them off yet. will share when they're ready!
Jonrezz
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by Jonrezz »

Got my first pair back with the bindings mounted and bases/edges tuned! Some pics:

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chrismp
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Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by chrismp »

Looking great! Is there any particular reason you ended the edges before the contact points in the tip?
Jonrezz
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by Jonrezz »

Thanks! Yeah, in hindsight, I kinda wish I brought them up further - the logic when I did it that way was that usually when I tune, the edges get a detune at the tip and tail anyway to reduce catchy-ness between turns. But now I’m wondering how long the skis will last without edge material protecting the laminates in that area.

Going forward I think I’m going to continue doing the full tip wrapped edges similar to what we did for my friend’s pair.

For this pair, I’m hoping it won’t matter, although I also suspect it might make them more chattery on the hard stuff? I guess there’s one way to find out haha! Going to go beat them up on the mountain tomorrow!
Jonrezz
Posts: 74
Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:14 pm

Re: Jonrezz’s Build Log

Post by Jonrezz »

Some progress on the snowboard today! some timelapse videos:

Pouring the sidewalls:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0ON8KS_Duc

Core Profiling:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBrctmSQ67w

and some pics:

Planing the core down before CNC profiling:
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And the profiled core:
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Next up inserts! I got my forstner bits.. will be first time doing these. havent decided yet if i'm going to print templates for the holes or measure it out..

Cheers!
Jon
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