Hi. First time posting, but I've been reading for a while.
I have done lots of searching and browsing these forums and the web in search for something resembling a patterned base instead of just using smooth stuff.
I have heard of carving a pattern into the base material but before I embark a project like that, is a waxless base material availible anywhere? I am looking for something fairly wide for touring in deep snow, 85+ mm. If not, Any good hints or tutorial pages before taking my bases under the knife? If I have to cut my own, I want a pretty aggressive base capable of making it up steeper hills than normal. I know it will slow me down on the downhill and prolly cut down the glide on flats, but I like going slow :]
Thanks
-JP
Waxless bases?
Moderators: Head Monkey, kelvin, bigKam, skidesmond, chrismp
Jee_Pram,
Here's just some random thoughts from me. If you want a very aggressive waxless pattern, you'll probably have to start with a thicker base material. You could use the tip spacer material that is available from Duarsurf, it's 2mm rather than the usual 1.3mm... yes, it comes from the factory already abraded on both sides... just think of it as already stone ground
. Next, you'll need to hold down the material really well while doing the machining. The best way of doing this is with a vacuum table. Then, either the vacuum table or the cutting tool (router?) will need to be mounted on some sort of an X and Y axis movable system so that you can accurately index the waxless pattern. If you're going to go that far, you might as well just build your own CNC router ( www.cnczone.com ) and then you can make lots of waxless bases.
Good luck and welcome to the forum,
G-man
Here's just some random thoughts from me. If you want a very aggressive waxless pattern, you'll probably have to start with a thicker base material. You could use the tip spacer material that is available from Duarsurf, it's 2mm rather than the usual 1.3mm... yes, it comes from the factory already abraded on both sides... just think of it as already stone ground
. Next, you'll need to hold down the material really well while doing the machining. The best way of doing this is with a vacuum table. Then, either the vacuum table or the cutting tool (router?) will need to be mounted on some sort of an X and Y axis movable system so that you can accurately index the waxless pattern. If you're going to go that far, you might as well just build your own CNC router ( www.cnczone.com ) and then you can make lots of waxless bases. Good luck and welcome to the forum,
G-man
Re: Waxless bases?
Yes, it is. It is fiberglass.Jee_Pram wrote:... is a waxless base material availible anywhere? ...
I was in Moena (Italy) few days ago, during the "Scufoneda" telemark festival.
I met some guys from Slovenia: one of them had a pair of home made skis.
Ash woodcore, shaped following a 100 years old norwegian ski, covered with fiberglass. He put edges, but the base was replaced by fiberglass, then waxed. The skis were gliding nicely of course.
I was interested in the same thing. DuraSurf said no they don't have it. I met a guy skiing and he showed me his base on regular tele skis. He used a dremel tool and cut in the half circles (?) into the finished bases. Looked to be climbing just fine for him. I may try this in the future but would need to practice, practice, practice before actually doing it to a built pair of skis. From my understanding there is a positive and a negative cut. One has the material cut away form a flat base (negative) and one has the half circles (?) raised above the base (positive). These appeared to be under foot only.
RA
RA
Re: Waxless bases?
So he made a ski, but just used a sheet of fiberglass for the base? Or did he wrap the ski in a thin sheet of fiberglassdavide wrote:Yes, it is. It is fiberglass.Jee_Pram wrote:... is a waxless base material availible anywhere? ...
I was in Moena (Italy) few days ago, during the "Scufoneda" telemark festival.
I met some guys from Slovenia: one of them had a pair of home made skis.
Ash woodcore, shaped following a 100 years old norwegian ski, covered with fiberglass. He put edges, but the base was replaced by fiberglass, then waxed. The skis were gliding nicely of course.
From what I understand the negative waxless bases glide a little better and the positive ones grip somewhat better. Neither is going to grip as well as a skin. The waxless pattern is only used on the area under the foot known as the kicker region (that is why they call those skins kicker skins). The theory is that with a cambered cross country ski you can glide more on the tips and tails and then when you push off the kicker area is pushed down and engages the snow. If you make a waxless ski without much camber you will significantly hurt your glide. I would think that the easiest home made waxless pattern would be a negative one done with a grinding tool like a dremel.
You might want to look at several different waxless ski bases from different companies because there are several different patterns (some are more rectangular, others fish scale shaped ect.).
good luck
Dave
You might want to look at several different waxless ski bases from different companies because there are several different patterns (some are more rectangular, others fish scale shaped ect.).
good luck
Dave
I was skiing with a friend today and he had the Karhu Guide (I think). Anyway I was looking at the base and it was a positive pattern. but it incorporated the fish scale in front and the rear of the ski with a rectangular or more squared off pattern under foot. I hope to try something like this in the future. So keep the suggestions comming. Maybe someone who is building a CNC can figure this out..
RA
RA
Here's just a thought...
This link: http://www.garlandmfg.com/plastics/faq.html
seems to indicate that UHMW becomes moldable at around 400 F (some other sources say 375 F). This possibility would be fairly easy to test out by building a quite small (2 x2 inch?) male and female aluminum mold with just any sort of 1 to 2 mm tall pattern in it. Then place a piece of UHMW base material between the aluminum mold pieces, put some sort of progressive clamping pressure on the mold pieces, and put the whole thing in a 400 degree oven. After 30 minutes or so, pull the mold out and let it cool, then take the mold apart and see if the mold pattern transfered to the UHMW. If it did, then it seems that an aluminum mold set for a patterned ski base could be cnc machined and a silicone heat blanket could be used for the heat source. Then a person could make lots and lots of waxless ski bases and sell them via the skibuilders store. The mold could even be used for either a positive or a negative pattern, depending upon which face of the UHMW was oriented upwards in the mold. Ooh, ooh... even better... it wouldn't really have to be a male and female mold. It could just be a single impression vacuum mold. The base material could still be oriented in the mold so positive or negative impressions could be achieved. Abrading and flame treating could be a challenge though.
G-man
This link: http://www.garlandmfg.com/plastics/faq.html
seems to indicate that UHMW becomes moldable at around 400 F (some other sources say 375 F). This possibility would be fairly easy to test out by building a quite small (2 x2 inch?) male and female aluminum mold with just any sort of 1 to 2 mm tall pattern in it. Then place a piece of UHMW base material between the aluminum mold pieces, put some sort of progressive clamping pressure on the mold pieces, and put the whole thing in a 400 degree oven. After 30 minutes or so, pull the mold out and let it cool, then take the mold apart and see if the mold pattern transfered to the UHMW. If it did, then it seems that an aluminum mold set for a patterned ski base could be cnc machined and a silicone heat blanket could be used for the heat source. Then a person could make lots and lots of waxless ski bases and sell them via the skibuilders store. The mold could even be used for either a positive or a negative pattern, depending upon which face of the UHMW was oriented upwards in the mold. Ooh, ooh... even better... it wouldn't really have to be a male and female mold. It could just be a single impression vacuum mold. The base material could still be oriented in the mold so positive or negative impressions could be achieved. Abrading and flame treating could be a challenge though.
G-man